BaseballBiz On Deck Mary Mustard WPBL

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Mark Corbett: Welcome to Baseball Biz On Deck. I am Mark Corbett, your host, and with me today I have that consummate writer and blogger about Women's Pro Baseball League, and I am talking about Miss Mary Mustard, this baseball fan, and we are so glad to have you here today. How you doing, Mary? 

Mary Mustard: I'm terrific. How are you?

Mark Corbett: I am having the time of my life a second time right now. And folks, I'm going to fess up right here and now that I... You know what? Mary and I have already talked for about a half an hour, and I forgot to hit that button to record, if you can believe that. I, I can, but age is such a wonderful thing. But Mary, I am so glad to be able to read what you have to say about the Women's Pro Baseball League.

I watch the games, and then sometimes I see things from my own perspective, so I don't necessarily pick up on some of the, somebody else's view, the see pieces of that. Before we get into the Women's Pro Baseball League, I want to talk a little bit about you and your involvement with [00:01:00] baseball. You're, you're actually playing at some level right now, are you not?

Mary Mustard: Yes. So I am in charge of a sandlot baseball team called Albany Queer Baseball. We are part of sort of an informal collection of teams nationwide that kind of harken back to a sandlot style, community-based, amateur, free, public baseball. Um, it's very word of mouth, and it's very-

It's, it's just about getting back to basics. It's about playing on... It's not about travel ball, it's not about men's league, it's not about trying to go pro. It's just about doing something after work or doing something on a Sunday afternoon. And through my club, we've been able to play against, , like-minded teams in Philadelphia and New Hampshire and New York City.

I'm based in Albany, New York. , And it's just been wonderful. A lot of people have joined who have never played baseball before, never thought about [00:02:00] playing baseball before, but thought this was a good group to meet people and get outside, and I've been so happy to be able to teach people about the game that I love.

Mark Corbett: Wow. That is so cool. I mean, what, Matt and I talk on the show all the time about community ball, having groups of people who enjoy the game together and supporting one another, you know? And, uh, have- m- and having a game that's fun. Sometimes you'll see some of the teams or some coaches at, , organized ball where it's like, good Lord, why don't you...

you think they're just so angry or so... Mm-hmm. And, and some parents, and well, I like it 'cause you're an adult. You're not gonna have parents in the stands shouting out, "Hey, what are you doing down there? Put my kid in." Mm-hmm. But no, my gosh. So what, what are some of the, your favorite, , moments thus far with your team?

Mary Mustard: Um, in July we played a Doll Star game, which read around the All-Star break, where a team that we've become [00:03:00] very good friends with from New York City came up, called the Boylan Boys. And I hosted some people in my apartment here and on Saturday night, and then we got up on Sunday and we played. Uh, I had a birthday cake 'cause it happened to be my birthday at the time, so I got everybody to sing me Happy Birthday, and we...

And I, , commissioned a pennant from a local artist to pass between us as, like, a rivalry trophy. , And they happened to win it that time. , It was just a wonderful... It was just a wonderful, wonderful day. It was the most people we've ever had come to a game. I think it was 18 people on my side.

Everybody got to bat, everybody got in the field, and it was just a celebration of being outside and having fun and playing baseball. 

Mark Corbett: Oh, wow. 

Mary Mustard: So that was, that was really the highlight so far. 

Mark Corbett: I love that, and I, I like that whole idea of maybe establishing a, an annual r- uh, rivalry, a friendly rivalry with, with another team.

That sounds pretty cool. 

Mary Mustard: Yeah, I, I, I'm fond of history, and that's how a lot of early baseball started was, you know, the, [00:04:00] the Knickerbockers of What-the-Whos-it-ville went to the Haymakers of Corn- Corntown and They just got something going every year 

Mark Corbett: Jeez. We've gotta get you down here to Tampa sometime because I, I work occasionally down at the Tampa Baseball Museum, and you talk about the history of the game and, and so much of it came from immigrants who would, uh, come in to work in the cigar industry.

And you had Italians, you had Cubans, you had Spaniards, you had Germans, and each one of them had their own social club, but the social club helped with, like, medical issues, find housing, banking. But then, so they would have their own little league, but then they would also intersperse with one another, too.

And to me, that was neat 'cause you would see this kind of organic thing from the different communities. But baseball just really grew a lot in Tampa from, from the immigrants, uh, in the late 1800s, early 1900s around here. So, uh, we'll have to get you. There's a lot of, a lot of fun baseball in the Tampa area, so, [00:05:00] um, anyway.

Mary Mustard: I, I was in Tampa once, and I was around the museum, but I w- wasn't able to go, um, which I regret. 

Mark Corbett: Well, if you get in town, you call me and we'll make sure we open it up just for you, kiddo. I'll make sure we have it- I appreciate that ... all right? Well, good. Well, the r- main reason I wanted to have you on here today is because I, I fir- was first introduced to you from your writing.

You know, looking at your blog, you talk about the Women's Pro Baseball League, which I'm a big, big fan of. I've, I've been tracking it back from the USA Women's National Team for a few years ago to, uh, to when I was sub- mentioned earlier, we talking Sue Zipay of the All-Americans, and she was starting something new in Sarasota, and seeing that, and then to see Justine Siegal pull this together, uh, after, you know, building on top of, I guess, baseball for all and other pieces, to bring in a women's national or Women's Pro Baseball League.

And a league, I said national, it's not national because it w- it's international. I mean, we're looking at players from Curacao. We're look- [00:06:00] Australia, Canada, Mexico, uh, I can't even think of them all. But such a diversity of this, and we're looking at, at, at four teams, four teams that are playing for a little bit over a month in, , Springfield, Illinois.

And the excitement that has come with this, the, the energy, and the hope for the future, to me, that is the best part of it all. So w- when you, we were looking at this on, at the inaugural day and we see that legendary, Mae Belle Blair out there. Mm. Oh my gosh, she's a legend. But, uh, what was some of the most exciting things, you know, for that inaugural day that you saw?

Mary Mustard: I, I just, I was, I was also familiar with women's baseball first through the international competition. So, personally I just got a big kick out of seeing all these women that I already knew about- Yeah ... and had just watched at the World Cup, , over the week be- prior in, in Rockford. I wasn't there personally, but I, I watched the [00:07:00] broadcast.

Just seeing them mixed up and shuffled on these new teams now. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mary Mustard: It, it was just cool. Like, oh, that's her, and she's from Canada, and she's Team Mexico, and I liked when she got that hit in that game off of her, who's now her teammate. And it, it, it just really felt like a celebration of the cream of the crop of this very, very small, but very passionate world.

And that, that's what I loved the most. But to be honest, when I was watching the ceremony, the thing I, I was thinking the most was like, "Let's just get playing." Like, "We've waited so long. Let's play." "I don't need to see this. I don't need to see that." We... I mean, it's all nice, and it, it is very touching, and I appreciate that they did it, but, um, I was ready to, I was ready to watch some baseball, you know?

Mark Corbett: Be a fan. I'm right there with you. I'm re- I'm ready to see the game. No, they, they... I, I understand all the pomp and ceremony, this being the inaugural, they're doing it. But we were all so excited to see that game. My gosh. It, it's interesting what you're talking about, seeing teams, uh, players from different teams, [00:08:00] um, someone they played together with on a national team, now they're facing one another.

Ayami Sato, I know she was saying, one of her teammates from Japan, "Don't tell them everything that you know about me and my what, how I pitch. You know, they're, you're gonna steal all my great secrets." But, uh, I mean, it's teasing and such, but it is interesting. I, I know two people that I've always been interested in watching, and that's, uh, Denae Benites and, um, Ashton Lansdell.

They seem to be v- very good friends. And alls I can think of is Denae, who's this fantastic player, guys, if you haven't checked her out, she's amazing. She's a catcher. So I can only wonder, when she's catching and Ashton Lansdell comes up to bat for the opposing team, is there any trash talk going on? Is she giving her buddy any grief, you know, while she's there at the plate?

It's exciting times, exciting game, and so much top talent. But, uh- Pardon me. [00:09:00] I am curious to see pardon me. We are, we are halfway through the season, and as we mentioned earlier on, uh, before we recorded, it was interesting to see what was going to happen with some of these teams.

When we were looking at the national, uh, teams playing in the group stage up in Rockford, there were teams that were just really poorly, uh, prepared- 

Mary Mustard: Mm-hmm ... 

Mark Corbett: for lack of a better way of saying it. And the old mercy rule came into play, five-inning games, and with a great gap between the run differential on them.

And that was so sad to see. So I don't think... I, with, with the WPBL, the good news is there was so much talent from across the world, they could build teams that were going to be strong I think there were still maybe one or two [00:10:00] games where they actually did have limited innings. They were about a five inning game.

Mary Mustard: But that was- Well, in the, in the, in the WPBL, I don't believe they're doing the run rule. I, I think there were some games that if they had a run rule would've been run ruled, but they're, they're not cutting them, cutting them short, uh- Good ... this year at least. 

Mark Corbett: Good. Good. ' So I'm glad to hear that, that I misread that. But we did see, uh, some teams that were struggling and, you know, I was looking at the, Boston Hunters, and specifically, , I thought... I looked at that talent there, and I thought, "Well, they- they're pretty good."

I, I know that their coach at the time, their manager, Folkes, he was saying something to the effect, "Well, I've, I've got a young team. That's, that's one thing. I've... These other ones have got veterans." There was other things going on about him and that team. And, uh, the good thing was the league took action.

They said, "There's a formula there that's not working, and we need to replace one of the [00:11:00] elements." And that element was the manager. And so once that manager left, the gentleman they brought in, Jemile Weeks, tell us a little bit about that infusion of energy he brought with it in. 

Mary Mustard: Yeah. So the, the original manager was, I think, somebody new to the scene, and I think he was somebody who wasn't connecting very much with his players and wasn't quite as enthusiastic about the games going on in front of him.

But Jemile Weeks, who had already been the first base coach for the LA Queens, became the manager of the Boston Hunters, and he remains the first base coach now for the Hunters. And I've just been loving... It's, it's been three, three, four games now since he's came on, and he, he's just so enthusiastic. Every single time a player gets a hit, he runs it over and gives them a high five and celebrates them.

Um, one moment I particularly liked was towards the end of one game, one player, Suzuka, uh- Yamamoto or [00:12:00] I, I might have her name wrong, but, um, she was-- she got her first hit ever in her first at-bat because she had arrived late to the league, and he came over and s- even though it was an empty single with one out and the hunters in, in the lead already, he, he, he was just so happy.

He bonked her on the head and gave her a double high five and , it's just infectious to watch, to, to seem... To see somebody be s-so, uh, not... Whatever the opposite of stoic is and to celebrate their players and to make it fun. 'Cause o-one of the things I really like about this league is it, it's just fun.

Th-these women all know each other and they've all been dreaming about this for so many years that now they're living a reality for only two weeks. I, I, I have to imagine they can't even imagine-- they can't even believe what they're seeing and doing is finally coming true, and the passion they're showing is just so infectious and Jemile Weeks is really contributing to it.

Mark Corbett: When this [00:13:00] league started, well, I should say basically when, uh, this inaugural season started, was-- has there been anything that you were really surprised by, any particular player or, um, s- action that was taken during the league games? 

Mary Mustard: Uh, Denae Benites has been breaking out in a way that I didn't even see coming.

I, I knew she was a very good player, and she plays with a lot of heart, as I've been saying. But she, she had an insane-- She's just been having an insane offensive showing. H-hitting home runs, hitting doubles seemingly in every at-bat. I think she had a two homer game, and I think she continues to lead the league with seven homers, which is just a, an immense amount.

Because when you look at the only data that we do have for women's baseball stats from the Women's Baseball World Cup, hitting seven homers in five games is just not something anybody has ever done in the [00:14:00] books. So she's been breaking out in a big, big way, and I've just been so happy to see it

Mark Corbett: Okay. Just looking at, uh, pulling up right now the WPBL site and looking at some of the stats here, it's, it is amazing, not surprisingly, Denae, like you were saying, she's, she's right there at the top. Seven home runs. Oh my gosh. Mm-hmm. And then beneath her is Kelsi with six, and Jamie McKay with, with four.

But well, let's see. Going across, uh, Denae's average is 769. My gosh. That's, that's an insane number. But, uh, on base percentage 767, that's not surprising. And as far as, uh, what is it? She's got, uh, 30 plate appearances. , 26 at [00:15:00] bats, 12 runs, 20 hits. Anyway, let's look at... I'm looking for the RBI's. 20 RBI's.

Yeah, see who's leading in RBI's? Well, she's leading in RBI's. Not surprising. But, uh- Yeah, 

Mary Mustard: she, she's something like nearly half of all of the runs scored by New York Heights have been scored or driven in by her. It's, it's quite a showing. 

Mark Corbett: I would say Well, let's see now. Now that we've, we've talked about what's been happening and we know that we're gonna be coming up here on the second half of the season, if you will, and it's all still going on in Springfield.

Uh, one thing I wanna remind folks is if you're wondering where you can see this, there's a couple of ways. One, you'll... If you have ESPN, I think it's ESPN2, uh, you can f- you can actually watch the games live there. There's a Scripps Network that can be watched there, or you can watch the highlights the next day on YouTube.[00:16:00] 

I know initially, Mary, there was a lot of folks who thought, , that it was gonna be just on YouTube live. But that didn't come to be. I, I was, uh... It seemed like this is so fresh and so new. Parts of this were still coming together t- just before the inaugural games, and I understand that. I was...

Early on I was like, "Oh, good, I got a team that's south, west, north." You know, give me something more. Okay, you g- you've given me cities now. It's, it's Boston, Los Angeles. It's, eh, it's nice. I d- I don't need a mascot for a dog or a, a cow or whatever you want. Yeah. But they came up with some very great ways of memorializing or even accentuating the history of the game and of some great women who've made either baseball or some other historical significance for women.

And I thought, "What a way to go ahead and brand the teams." It took me so far from [00:17:00] just having, you know, East, West, South to, to that, and I was so glad to see it. But it's like they must have kept it, like, a little surprise. They weren't going to share with us at the beginning and just pop it out there. And I w- I, I'd wonder how long in advance they actually knew what they were gonna do with that 

Mary Mustard: Yeah, I, I have a feeling it came together a little late, right?

My, my impression... I, I followed the league's development since they went public with it. Yeah. And I think at every step they've been figuring it out as they go along, which there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's, it's hard to start a business like this, but- 

Mark Corbett: Yeah ... 

Mary Mustard: I think the original plan was to stick with just the city names, and then people started clamoring for those proper brands, and they, they came through and delivered them.

Mark Corbett: It's interesting, too, to see who they've aligned with or who's aligned with them. I think, uh, New Era is, is part of, I hear them sponsoring, I think, part of the show. And then of course YouTube. Uh, I think Louisville Slugger must be... [00:18:00] They need to pay Kelsi and Denae something. I see with that bat up there, they got Louisville straight down that aluminum bat.

They need to be paying something to them. 

Mary Mustard: I do know that, um, Mo'ne Davis signed something with, with them. I, I don't know about the rest of the players, but that's probably where the bat came from. 

Mark Corbett: Okay. Well, that makes sense. 'Cause I thought the branding on it was immense. You know, it was like straight down the side of the bat there.

But I think even if you look on their website, . you'll see one of them holding the bat, and it's not like, "Here, here it is, folks," but it is obvious that Louisville, uh, the Louisville bat, the Louisville Slugger bat's there. But anyway. No, that's, it's... We're, we won't go into this today, but Mary, it is interesting.

I'd, I'd love to s- find out more about, , what kind of branding that some of these young women are able to get with what they're doing there. Because I feel like from what I understood, at least generally, they're not gonna be able to pay these women a great deal of money for this, this inaugural season.

They're gonna be able to pay them something, and I'm sure some players are more, making more than others. [00:19:00] But the league has to be sustainable. It needs to have a strong fan base. So being able to have those cities and those names, I think, will help build that, and including with, with, I guess, selling merch.

But the, the fan base. You were talking about your own, w- well, I was asking you about previously, about, um, if you had an affinity for a s- single team there 

Mary Mustard: Yes. I, I, I've decided to run with the New York Heights just 'cause I'm from New York and, not the city, but a, a New York stater, and it just seemed appropriate.

And some, some players I, I, I do enjoy, like Dylan Benedis and Jaida Lee and Rakyung Kim, who I had researched before the season started, are all on New York, so I figured why not? 

Mark Corbett: I just can't wait until the time that you're able to go see your team, you know, near home, that you can get in a car, drive there maybe a couple hours or whatever most, and go see your team.

You know, pull for your team. [00:20:00] We're able to do it right now, obviously, on t- on television or streaming, but man, there is nothing like the one that you want to support, be there in front of them, and screaming, shouting, and rooting all the way, and, you know, screaming at the umpire. Oh. Sorry about that, Perry.

But no. I mean, and that'll come. I, I'm really curious to see what the second season will hold. But right now, we still have a lot going on. And I want to check something here as far as the teams, the statistics. The standings right now, we're looking at, uh, San Francisco, they're five and two. Los Angeles, four and three.

Boston, three and four. And New York, two and five, which kind of surprised me. I thought... Is that right? Yeah. 

Mary Mustard: Mm-hmm. 

Mark Corbett: Wow. I, I thought with, with all the talent there and, and some of the performance I've seen and highlights that actually that New York would [00:21:00] be higher up in, in the standings right now. But we still got plenty of time.

We're only halfway there. 

Mary Mustard: Yeah. A- and , the way the season's structured, , they played a number of games against the, the Hunters, and now they're going to dip back between the San Francisco and LA teams for the back half. So we'll see if that changes New York's fortunes or not, . . 

Mark Corbett: Are there any particular stories that you've seen this far into the season that you think, "Wow," you've, you know, something that maybe you've already written about that folks need to reflect on? 

Mary Mustard: Uh, I haven't written about her, but, , Brittney Apgar is a very cool player. She, , was born, with one hand, more or less, and she's worked very hard in finding a way to hold a bat and hit a ball.

I, I, I think it's over... She says over 80 she's found sort of splits her nub open- 

Mark Corbett: Mm-hmm ... 

Mary Mustard: as she says it. Um, and she was saying on the broadcast [00:22:00] that she had a specialty one-of-one prosthetic created with the help of some lab somewhere, um, to allow her to get a hit, and I think she's got at least three hits so far, and pitched a little bit.

So it's, it's just been wonderful watching her. Uh, the, I, I can't keep talking about Denae Benites, but her home run power, you know, leading the standings, and then Kelsey Whitmore, the number one first overall draft pick, catching up to her home run standings in, in I think three games in three days. Mm-hmm.

She hit seven home runs. Uh, uh, it, it is exciting to see. I, I hope they continue to be rivals, and I'm definitely waiting for Ashton Lansdell to, to pop off- 

Mark Corbett: Oh, yeah ... because 

Mary Mustard: in, in the World Cup in Rockford, she was the hardest hitting player, not Benites, and so I think she, she's gotta have a few moments to her due.

, On, on a team level, I, I wanna see [00:23:00] how they continue to approach each other because as I said, , the league had its, both of the main, quote-unquote, "rivalries" between New York and Boston and LA and San Francisco. They each played, like, a five-game series just now, and now they're gonna alternate between each other.

So I, I wonder if that will change how they interact and how they move up and down the scoreboard. 

Mark Corbett: Well, there's still a half a season ahead of us, so I'm really excited to see how this all plays out. , we'll see. Uh, post-season, which should be probably just a few games, none of that has really been, uh, rolled out to us yet what that's gonna look like, but, uh, with four teams ought to be fairly simple.

We'll- Mm-hmm ... we'll see what they come up with. , Any other things you wanna make sure we share with the audience today? 

Mary Mustard: I j- I just wanna say that if you haven't caught a game yet and you have ESPN, try to do it. , Some of the games are free in America through, uh, Scripps, which I've been accessing through Tubi, the, the sort of free streaming app.

But get, get out and watch some. These, these players are very [00:24:00] accessible. They're very enthusiastic. They're more human, I think, than some of the superstars maybe in the MLB, and the game they play is just a lot more down and dirty. They, they scrape for every little single and every little blue pit and every little bunt, and they take advantage of errors.

You know, it... mistakes get punished very well in this league, so. 

Mark Corbett: Oh my gosh. There's a lot of passion, a lot of passion in this game. 

Mary Mustard: Mm-hmm. 

Mark Corbett: Wow. Well, I wanna wish you and your friends a continued success in the Sandlot league there as well and enjoying that. It sounds like so much fun. And, uh- It is fun ... I do hope we can get you down to Tampa sometime, 'cause like I said, that...

we'd... we'll have some fun. We'll, we'll walk you through all the history of, of baseball around here sometime 'cause it's, it's amazing. And thank you for sharing with us what you're writing in your blog, and where can they find that, and how should they look for it, Mary? 

Mary Mustard: Uh, I'm on Substack, Mary Mustard, and then the name of the blog is Towards a More Perfect [00:25:00] Game.

Uh, I think that will come up if you Google it. I'm posting whenever the spirit moves me, couple times a week during the season, and then we'll see what the off-season holds. But that's where I am for now. 

Mark Corbett: All right. Well, again, we're talking with Mary Mustard, and as you heard, you can find th- her blog there.

We'll also put that, uh, in the notes with a link to that so you all can check it out there as well. Mary, I can't thank you enough for joining us here today. It's always a pleasure to, to meet someone like you who's enjoying the game and more perfect game. I'm, I'm l- uh, definitely looking forward to reading more of your, uh, stuff here in the future.

I 

Mary Mustard: appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. This was fun.