The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League - AAGPBL & Cuba Expansion Plans

Merrie Fidler_AAGPBL_Cuba

Welcome to a Special edition of Women in Baseball on BaseballBiz On Deck. This week Merrie Fidler shares her love of the game with the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion. Merrie discusses with Mark how she discovered the AAGPBL while pursuing her master's degree in sport history. They also discuss the historic expansion plans for an international women's baseball league spanyning Cuba, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Panama, and the Dominican Republic So lets get started!!!

Mark Corbett: [00:00:00] Welcome to BaseballBiz On Deck. I am Mark Corbett, and with me today I have the lady who understands more about All-American Girls Baseball than I think anybody, and that is Ms. Merrie Fidler. Merrie, welcome to the show.

Merrie Fidler: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Mark Corbett: I, I... , first time I discovered about the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League, AAGPBL, , I was just stunned. I, I was down at the Tampa Baseball Museum, and I saw this feature on, uh, Senaida Shoo Shoo Wirth and, you know, what she achieved with the South Bend Blue Sox and all that, and who's a, a native of this area.

But then I, I discovered that there was still activity going on in, uh, Sue Zipay, who we unfortunately lost this past year. , Sue had headed up, who, who has been part of, let's see, was she, she was part of the Rockford Peaches, if I remember correctly. Mm-hmm. And she had headed up, uh, an organization where she was getting young women to come and play underneath the, the names of the first four [00:01:00] teams, if I remember that correctly as well.

It, and to me it enthused me. I, I'm a, uh, before I go on too much more about myself, I'm a dad of, with two girls and a grandchild who's a girl, and I wanna see the best for every one of them. So I am so glad when there's organizations like the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League, promoting what not only what happened in the past, but for the future as well.

Merrie, I, I'd like, if, if you don't mind, to kinda introduce folks to how, I mean, you're on the board of directors for the All-Americans. Mm-hmm. And they've got an event coming up soon. What I would like to hear from you is, you're a director on there,

what is it that first attracted you to the All-Americans?

Merrie Fidler: Well, When I was, uh, working in the intramural sports department at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst, , I decided to, uh, work on a master's degree. I had a BA, [00:02:00] and I decided to work on a master's degree. And, one of the classes available was, , a class about American women in sport, and one of the assignments for that class was to go through, this was in the 1970s, early 1970s before, , computers, and, , the assignment was to go through the reader's guide to periodic literature-

and find as many articles as a person could about American women in sport And I ran across a 1943 Time Magazine article, it was about three inches long, , and the heading had to do with Philip Wrigley starting a women's professional softball league. , I had grown up in a family of older brothers, 8 and 10 years older, and a dad [00:03:00] who were avid baseball fans, especially for the Yankees, and they played in the local, , community baseball league.

, So every Sunday we were at the baseball park for as lo- far back as I can remember. And, the other kids pretty much went and played games outside the field, you know, that because they weren't interested in the baseball. Right. But it was my dad or my brothers out there, and I had to watch. So I grew up just infused with baseball.

And as early as I could, , I played on the school grounds with, the older kids. And, , when I got into junior high, I was able to play, , interscholastic softball, and that went from, , went on into high school I played interscholastic. And when I was 15, , I also made [00:04:00] the, , Redding California City women's softball team.

Very cool. And we traveled, , between, , Oregon and San Francisco- ... , playing games, , which w- and- That's a distance ... in all of this, this time, and then I went to college and played intercollegiate ball, and in all of this time I never heard about an, a professional women's softball league. I knew there were, semi-pro leagues.

I knew there were, um, factory leagues and that sort of thing, but I'd never heard of a Real professional softball league. So it piqued my interest, and, uh, I was talking with one of my friends who was a doctoral student in sport history, and my master's degree was in sport history. , And I said, , how could I find out more about this league?"

[00:05:00] And he said, "Well, why don't you write to the league city sports editors and, , see if there's anybody around who remembers anything about the teams there?" Yeah. Because the article did say that where the four teams would be. , And so I did that, and, , it was one of those situations where I just happened to contact the right person at the right time.

The South Bend, sports editor, he was still sports editor at the, , South Bend Tribune, wrote me back and said, "Well, you should contact Jean Faut," who by then was Jean Faut Winch, "and, see what she can tell you." So I did that, and on the way back from California during a Christmas vacation, I stopped off at South Bend to interview Jean.

Well, she [00:06:00] was fantastic. Not only did she talk to me about her experience, but she invited two other former players, a business manager, a chaperone, , and a former coach to come to her house for me to interview them also. Oh my gosh. The former coach was Chet Grant, who had been, , a star with the Notre Dame football, he was then working at the sports and games collection at the University of Notre Dame, and he said, uh, this was on a Saturday, and he said, "Well, why don't you come over to the university tomorrow, and, , I'll show you what we've collected there about the league?"

And I did that, and in the course of conversation he said, "Well, what you really need to do is contact Arthur Meyerhoff, who helped Wrigley start the league- Yeah ... and served as Wrigley's advertising agent for [00:07:00] everything, but especially for the s- the softball league, promoting it." And I said, "Well, how would I do that?

I have no idea." And he says, "Oh, I have his contact information." And then the other thing that Jane provided was beyond my wildest dreams. Her team president had kept league and team board meeting minutes, newspaper clippings, photos, letters, all kinds of stuff, in nine three-inch deep binders. And she brought those out and showed them to me, and I, I said, "Oh, wow, these are wonderful.

There's, there's no way I can deal with these in a weekend." "Would you let me take them with me?" And bless her heart, you know, she didn't know me from Adam, but she allowed me to take those invaluable binders with me. [00:08:00] And, I was working full-time taking master's degree classes on the side, and it took me four years to get through them and, you know, compose things from them.

But, uh, and I did get them back to her, but that was, , like I say, I just contacted the right person at the right time. Right. And I also contacted Mr. Myerhoff and asked if I could come and interview him the spring following that Christmas stop at Jean's, and, , he agreed. And, , so during Easter vacation, I flew to San Diego where he was at the time and interviewed him, and he was very gracious and very helpful.

And towards the end of the conversation, he says, "Well, what you really need to do is, uh, spend some time in my office in the [00:09:00] Wrigley Building in Chicago, and I'll have my secretaries bring up, , my AAGPBL file boxes, , for you to go through." And, , I was not able to do it that summer because of other commitments, but the following summer I spent a week of eight-hour days at his desk in his office at the Wrigley Building with his secretaries bringing up file boxes.

And, , they let me take a copy if there were multiple copies of something, and if there wasn't a multiple copy of something, they made copies for me, which was more difficult at that time than it is now because the, the copy machines were antiquated And, and took, uh, considerable effort to,, get-- viable copies.

[00:10:00] So with all of this material, , I said, "I don't know if anybody will ever be able to have all of this material together. I've got to do a good job with it." Yeah. And, , so I spent, , four years composing a master's thesis on the league, and it turned out to be one of the motivating things for the players to, , get together for a national reunion in 1982.

That was their first national reunion. And- During the rest of the '90s, uh, well, until '87, from '82 to '87, they would have mini reunions in different sections of the country where, several of them , lived - closer. And then they decided to petition the Hall of Fame to be recognized as part of baseball history because although the league started [00:11:00] off as, the title started off as All American Girls Softball League, the rules that Wrigley instituted immediately were baseball rules because he thought baseball was a better spectator sport than softball.

So he lengthened the base paths to allow for leading off and stealing, and he lengthened the pitching distance so that softball was not, so that the pitch, the game was not so pitch dominated-, as softball was at the time. And, , the players that he re- and he sent his scouts all over the country to, , tournaments, especially end of season, , regional tournaments and national tournaments, and also in Ch- in Canada the same, and, uh, recruited the best players he could find who were feminine [00:12:00] appearing.

And, and he designed the skirted uniform. He was an upper class man, and he knew that he would not be able to get the upper class businessmen in the league cities to go along with him if he didn't emphasize femininity, and so that was a big part of the publicity and promotion for the league. Right. And, anyway, that's, that's how that came about.

And, and the Hall of Fame did, , finally recognize the league and had a, , an opening exhibit for the league in, , the fall of 1988. , And, , over 200 people attended that- Hmm ... event. It was the first time the Hall of Fame had an opening for an exhibit [00:13:00] That was that well-attended. And of course, a lot of the attendees were former players and family members and friends and relatives and that sort of thing.

And, I attended that event, too. I was teaching and coaching at the time, and, , I had to take time off without pay to go to that, but I wasn't gonna miss that event. , It was really neat. , I had studied these players. A- another thing I did was I got, , newspapers on microfilm for the first four teams and went through those, so I got some additional information there.

, But, , it was really neat to, , see these players, , look at their name tags and- Yeah ... and, and, "Oh, you're Sophie Curries," you know? And, and the players did the same things because they hadn't seen each other for [00:14:00] 30 years, , from different areas all o- over the country, and they'd see somebody that they, and they'd look at the name tag, "Oh, Sophie."

Oh, my gosh. So, so it was, it was really neat. And, uh- Wow ... then they started having reunions every two years, national reunions every two years, and I wasn't able to go because they had them in the fall when, motel rates were cheaper and, uh, and I was teaching and coaching. But when I retired in 2003, the first thing on my bucket list was to go to the reunion that year.

And, , during that reunion, some of the board members who had, , seen a copy of my thesis, which , through Jean and other players, , I was able to, uh, find and interview some [00:15:00] other players and, , or communicate with them. , And one of them, who was a printer, June Pepus, asked if she could, , make copies of my thesis to share with other players, and I said sure.

And, , so when I went to that reunion in 2003, there were a couple of board members who had read my thesis, and they encouraged me to try to get it published because they thought it was a good history of the league. And, , when we went to the Hall of Fame in 2003, that was one of the events at the time, , I talked to the research librarian about,, if I were to publish my thesis, what publishers would I send it to?

And he gave me a couple of suggestions, one of which was McFarland in, uh, North Carolina. Right. And when I sent them a copy of my thesis, they, they wrote back [00:16:00] and said, "Yes, we'd like to publish it. We, we have some things we'd like you to do with it." So, um, and I had to retype the thesis. It was 320-some pages.

Oh, God bless you. And I had to retype it because they had to have it on a computer disk by 2003. But in the process, um, you know, I added things that I had found out between 1976 , and 2003, and, , I also added a history of the Players Association, how it got started and the things that they were able to do.

And of course, the movie came out in, , 1992, and that just,, opened doors for all of the players because, , they hadn't talked too much about their experience in the league because they'd say they played baseball, and people would say, "Oh, you mean softball." [00:17:00] And so they would, didn't wanna go through the explanation of all this stuff.

Um- I mean, that's sad you have to correct them every time to let them know- Yeah, yeah ... no, no, no, no, no. So they just- Let me explain something ... they, but, but when the movie came out, that opened the doors for them, and they started getting the accolades they should have gotten all along. Right. And, , so that was neat.

And then , one of the board members asked me to be on a committee, , about, , the future of the league, of the Players Association. And so I joined the committee and enjoyed, , you know, talking with, with the players that were on the committee about that. And then in 2007, they had an opening on the board.

, One of the, , board members, , had to quit and, , so they encouraged me, , the committee members encouraged me to run for the board, and I did and was elected. And then they said, [00:18:00] uh, "Well, you were an English teacher, , we think you should be secretary." Oh, gosh. So I've been secretary of the league since, , late 2007.

Mark Corbett: Wow. Until the present. Wow, I... Jeez, Merrie, you... First, respect, okay? I, I can ac- as you're telling this story, I can visualize you sitting there for a full week, eight hours or whatever these, uh, going through everything through, I guess it was Meyerhoff's office and- Mm-hmm ... and trying to absorb all that, and to be able to interview all these folks.

Now, I- Yeah ... I'm sure you're taking, uh, pen to, pencil or pen to paper, but were you able to record any of those things as well on, , audio?

Merrie Fidler: I do have some, , recordings. , I think I recorded the Meyerhoff interview, , and then I recorded some player interviews after that. , And those are all at, the History Museum in South Bend, Indiana, , which is the [00:19:00] national repository for the All American League.

Mark Corbett: Well, I've gotta stop here sometime because I know so much is there. And as you well know, I'm a big fan of Shoo Shoo Wirth from Ybor here in the Tampa area, and she was with the South Bend Blue Sox, but that's a topic for another time. But, one of the things that stimulated this conversation was thinking about her mother coming from Cuba and then realizing that the All Americans, after a couple of years, were looking at an expansion league that was going to be in the South, and that looked like, correct me if I'm wrong, looked like it was gonna be Tampa, some other locations in Florida, Cuba, and South America.

I think Venezuela may have been part of it. Te- tell me a little bit about how that idea started for the expansion of a s- a southern division of the league.

Merrie Fidler: Well, this was one of Arthur Meyerhoff's, inspirations. And the thing about Arthur [00:20:00] Meyerhoff was that, , it's important to know that he became commissioner of the All American League in 1945.

Uh, Wrigley had started it, , and, , and he was more committed to men's baseball, and he was going to stop the league in 1945. But Meyerhoff had been to the games and was inspired by the players and their abilities and that sort of thing, and he decided he'd like to take the league over. So he bought it from Wrigley for $10,000, which wasn't near what Wrigley had put into it, and he ran it through the 1950 season.

And, In, , 194- eh, well, and the other thing about it is that the league held spring training for all teams at the beginning of each year, and then they would, with the [00:21:00] players that they had at the spring training, they would designate them to teams based on ability so that theoretically the skill level of each team would be as equal as possible so that there would be no team that was always winning , and no team that was always losing- Right

to keep fans, coming. That was the theory anyway. And, and I'm sure it worked a little bit, but when you have injuries, and illnesses- Yeah ... and family emergencies and stuff, and players are, uh, have to be gone, then that kind of erases some of the other theory.

Mark Corbett: Um- I, I know I heard a, a baseball prognosticator the other day.

He said, "Well, who do you think is gonna win this season?" He said, "Well, if you could tell me who's gonna be injured, what trades are gonna be happening, and all that, give me... I, I can start, but [00:22:00] beyond that, eh, no."

Merrie Fidler: Yeah. But anyhow, um, uh, in 1947 the Dodgers held spring training in Cuba because of Jackie Robinson.

They didn't wanna have spring training in the southern states as usual because they knew Jackie would be discriminated against severely, so they went to Cuba. Well, Branch Rickey and Max Carey, who was the president of the All-American League, were good friends. And apparently in talking to Rickey, , Max Carey decided to have the All-American spring training in Cuba in 1947 after the Dodgers were there.

Wow. And, , and they were blown away because , the teams played in, , Havana's grand stadium, which was like Dodger [00:23:00] Stadium or Yankee Stadium. It was the national, , park for the Cuban teams. And they drew , the girls' teams drew 15 to 20,000 fans for the games, which was, yeah, I'm sure blew Meyerhoff's mind because in the h- home cities they would, if they had 1,200 to 2,000 spectators at a game, that was good.

So when, when this happened, I'm sure Meyerhoff thought, "Well, you know, I could make a lot more money if I, had teams in the South,, that could go to Cuba," and later he found out some, , northern South American countries like Venezuela and Costa Rica and that sort of thing. And so he, , set up spring training, , in, , Florida in 1948 [00:24:00] to test his theory.

Well, four of the teams, , went back to Havana in 1948 for a round-robin tournament to get the spectators. Unfortunately, they didn't have as many spectators go to games the second year in Cuba, but they still drew 3 to 5,000, , a game, which was, good for the, the women's league , but and also in '48, , Meyerhoff decided to test the Florida cities for, uh, uh, uh, spec- spectator attendance.

So he had two teams in, , Tampa, two teams in, , Miami, , two teams in, Daytona, uh, play tour- uh, like, like a four-day tournament, , in [00:25:00] those cities to see , how, if they would draw enough spectators. Well, unfortunately, they drew spectators, but unfortunately not as many as desired because there were too many other established sports events-

during in, in Florida during the summertime. , They had the competing men's baseball, , tournaments. They had, , bullfights, jai alai, - lacrosse, tennis. Yep. And those were established, and people, the northerners who went to Florida for the summertime, they had their, , activities that they attended.

So they'd go to see a girls game maybe one night, but if there was a conflict with one of the other sports that they normally attended, then the spectators would go there. It was an experiment that, , Meyerhoff attempted, especially having that in [00:26:00] '47, having the turnout in Cuba. He also established a tour through Central and Northern, , South America in the winter of, , 1948, and he drew a lot of fans there.

And so he came up with the idea of having an international women's baseball league, which would include United States, Cuba, Venezuela, , Costa Rica, , Panama, , the Dominican Republic It never materialized, but, he was thinking large

Mark Corbett: what was the impediment to that? 'Cause it sounds, it's exciting to me, and you hear about the initial response, whether it be Cuba, et cetera, and second year maybe not so much.

But wow. What, what, what, uh, I mean, this great idea, what happened to it?

Merrie Fidler: Well, I think it was finances. , The '48 tour, , [00:27:00] went from, - Oh, I can't think of the most northern Central American country, but just below Mexico, Guatemala, and Panama, and Costa Rica, Panama, Venezuela, and then to, Puerto Rico.

And, uh, the Puerto Ricos had developed a league too, as well as the Cubans had developed a league. Mm-hmm. And, they were supposed to go to the Dominican Republic and then back to Cuba, but it turned out that one of the, , administrators in Cuba had, listed the travel, the flight costs above what they actually were.

Ooh. And, , Meyerhoff found out, and he just stopped the tour at Puerto Rico, flew the girls back to, , the States from there. And [00:28:00] so that sort of thing, may have happened more than once, and Meyerhoff just didn't have the, finances that, that Wrigley had. , And, - Yeah, he'd already spent 10,000 for an entire league.

Uh, if it had been Wrigley- Yeah ... it, it might have got off the ground, but, , Meyerhoff just didn't have The finances to, , pursue it further.

Mark Corbett: But Meyerhoff was really good though, is, I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, in the early days with Wrigley, to, for the marketing, for, for getting- Oh, yeah ... the message out.

, Is part of the overall success of the All Americans due to Meyerhoff's, uh, impact in, in marketing?

Merrie Fidler: Yeah. Yeah, and , that's what I try to tell the people to- today who want to promote - another women's professional softball league is, "Hey, you've got to publicize the heck out of it.

You've got to promote the heck out of it." , Because, , to [00:29:00] me, that's what made the league go. , And, , the other thing Meyerhoff, well, Wrigley and Meyerhoff did, was they hired the league city sports editors to be scorekeepers. And so, you know, they had all of the information they needed to write up, , game reports in every day's newspaper, and they did it.

, And if you look at , those league city newspapers, every game was written up just as if it was the New York Yankees in New York. Yep., In the newspaper. And they did features on the players. , They did everything that, uh, he did everything he could to continually publicize and promote , the teams and the league, and that's what made it go for so long.

A- and in 1951, the, , the league city directors decided [00:30:00] to buy Meyerhoff out because they thought he was spending too much money on, , spring training and promotion and publicity, and player development. Because when they went to overhand pitching in 1948, they lengthened the base paths and pitching distance further, instituted overhand pitching.

So the softball players coming in had to spend training time to be proficient in baseball- Right ... as opposed to softball, and, , that cost money. Sure. , The first things that the league, , that the team administrators cut from their budget was publicity and promotion, and, , player procurement- And training of new players coming in.[00:31:00] 

And you could just see the, , attendance at, the league, in the league cities go down every year. And , then they weren't bringing in enough money , to continue.

Mark Corbett: You do talk about the competitive, , sports atmosphere in some of the southern states with sports ongoing with sun virtually throughout the entire year, and that was being competitive with the All Americans- Mm-hmm

uh, and the establishment of a new field. But what you're, what you're bringing to my mind a little bit more so is that when... A- all right, a couple of things I hear about the All Americans is that some of it c- came to a close because of the end of the war, some of it because the advent of television was, was dr- you know, pulling people in.

But it sounds like a big part of it was a whole other thing. It's like- Mm ... the investment in the product, the investment in the team, in the players, and whether that be through promotion, whether it be selecting some great talent and getting them in there to play for you. [00:32:00] Uh, it, I mean, to me, I guess in the past I'd always sat there thinking, "Oh, it's because of television.

Oh, it's because of the war." But while those may have been factors- Yeah ... if you don't, if you don't feed the horse, he's not gonna run. And- You're right ... the, the, it doesn't sound like you, they were ready to feed the, uh, the league to make that thing continue on, uh, w- way to- Yeah ... the gallop it had early on in the, with the league. Yeah.

Merrie Fidler: Yes, , and you're right. , The, , advent of TV was one factor, and the ending of the war was another because, uh, many of the league city businesses had, uh, war production contracts. Mm-hmm. So they had extra money during the war to spend on women's baseball.

Wow. , But there again, the things that they cut when they took control were big factors for, , drawing fans [00:33:00] in.

Mark Corbett: Well, another point you made to me that I hadn't realized before either is since we were talking about the development of the Southern Division, that some of these, uh, South American countries, Cuba, et cetera, were already establishing their own leagues for, uh, women as well.

Yes. Uh, mm-hmm. And so they, basically you were, maybe you had a strong hurdle that first year or two that said, "Well, maybe we need to do that." But, but also, though, from those travels to, uh, South America, I'm looking... Let's see. Let me pull up an old document here. Old sportsman talking about, uh, uh, coming back with as many as seven players, you know, from I think Cuba to, to be part of the All-American.

Mm-hmm. So there was an influx of international just from those associations and visits to South America and Cuba. Uh- Mm-hmm ... now, I, I would, uh, again, because I'm al- always talking about Shu Shu Wirth, it was interesting because you're [00:34:00] thinking you're bringing in this great talent, but do you have people who can actually speak, coach, manage these players?

You say, "Hell, look at that young lady out of Miami. She is kicking it on the field. Okay, now can I tell her where, what position I need her to play and where I need her?" No. So, uh- Mm-hmm ... I know Shoo Shoo was one of the few interpreters who could do that. Mm-hmm. And I could see that where it could be an impediment.

But,, how did overall, I know I'm kinda at a broad question here, but of those seven girls, are there certain ones that stand out to you and say, "Oh, this young lady her works really came through on the field"? Yeah.

Merrie Fidler: Well, they were all, - Terrific players. And they had to be, to be recruited to play with the league.

Right. - One of the ones who was probably, , the most successful, the most, , publicized was, , Isabel Al- Alvarez. She joined the, , touring group of All-Americans and Cubans [00:35:00] that went to, to Central and South America in the, , winter of '48. And, she was only 14 that year. But she was a good pitcher.

In fact, she had pitched in 1947, she had pitched with one of the, , Cuban teams that played against the All-American teams. , And she was apparently very good because, , , the, , league, , hired her, , at the end of that 1948, , winter tour to come to the US. And, , she said that, , not only that, but her mother supported her, , interest in playing in the league.

Yeah. And her mother saw the possibilities for an improved future for Isabel in the United States as opposed to in Cuba. And so her mother encouraged her, and she wound up playing for the Fort Wayne Daisies, and lived with a [00:36:00] family there, , that, , really did everything they could to, make her feel welcome, to encourage her, to support her.

And she was i- indebted to them that they, , took such good care of her. In fact, all of the players for most of the years, lived with, , local families. Oftentimes two players would, rent a room in a private home. , One of , the local fans would say, "Oh, yeah, , we'll take a couple players in," so they didn't have hotel expenses-

uh, type of thing. Nice. They did pay rent, but, , it was minimal, , as opposed to what they'd have to pay if they were living in a motel for four months.

Mark Corbett: Makes me think of the Cape Cod leagues and the, the young college students- Mm-hmm ... , would sometimes be- Right ... housed almost like family members.

Right, right. Exactly. Wow. Well my [00:37:00] gosh, Merrie, I, I can't thank you enough. I, I do wanna kinda get a couple more things going on here as far as understanding about the All Americans and what's up and coming. , Being a fan of women's baseball, July and August have got some goodies on the calendar. I mean, if we're going to Rockford, what do we got?

We got the, uh, International Women's Baseball, ? World Cup. World Cup. Mm-hmm. At, at the group level. 'Cause I didn't realize it's, they're go- and then next year will be the actual, the world, uh, beyond the- Mm-hmm ... it's group stage this year, that's right, and then I think finals next year.

But that is gonna be exciting, I mean, to see great young women baseball players from around the world come to play in Rockford, home of the Peaches. You know, one of the four teams that was esta- they, they established of the All Americans. Plus you guys, the All Americans, you're gonna be having your reunion there that week.

Yeah. Oh, gosh. I, I, to me, I love it. It's, it's what's happening [00:38:00] today plus the history of what made that happen today. You know- Yeah ... having you guys there. And, uh, it, it's gonna be an exciting time. I've, I have not got my plane ticket yet, but I am coming. I wanna be there. Great. I wanna see it. I wanna have as many conversations as we can, and, 'cause to me it's exciting.

And then the next month in Springfield, they're gonna be the, the Women's Pro Baseball League. Oh my gosh. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I love it. I, I, and you know, you talked about, we talked about getting the word out and how Meyerhoff did a lot of that. And then today I came again to think of what they're doing. But you, you see people like Kelsie Whitmore, Danae, uh, Benitez and some other ones who, they're doing TikTok, they're doing Twitter, they're doing Facebook.

And they're c- they're reaching everybody through a whole other platform- it's, it's, it's great to watch that, and I hope that that's invigorating a lot of young people to come and see this because, uh- Yeah ... there, there's so [00:39:00] much there.

Yeah. Forgive me. I'll have to edit myself. I talk too much. But oh.

Merrie Fidler: Well, that's, that's good. And , it's gratifying to me to, See the opportunities opening up for girls to play baseball. Yeah. I'd had a choice when I was a young girl of playing softball or baseball because of my upbringing, I would've played baseball.

Yep. Rather than softball. Yeah. , I didn't have that opportunity , and we're still kind of fighting the, the 1800s when baseball started, , women's fashion didn't allow for a lot of, , athletic competition and so baseball became known as a man's game. And, , and we're still kind of fighting that culture today, but in the 150 years, , that have passed, some things have [00:40:00] changed.

, The women showed they could play softball very well. And, , and those who are playing baseball now are showing that they can play baseball very well. And the All American League was, , the star in that, , controversy, , that they, the women showed they could play baseball and play it very well.

Now, they didn't play on a regulation diamond, but most of the players were between five foot and five foot eight. Yep. And slender, with no, strength training. And s- so they did very well on the size field that they played. And, um, and those that saw them play testified that if you didn't see it, you wouldn't believe it.

They saw it, and they believed it, so, so, uh- I,

Mark Corbett: I mean, and these young women, they, they were much more than just a woman on the field because [00:41:00] as the league came to close, you would find these young women who were athletes first above everything else. You'd find them in golf, you would find them in bowling, you would find them in tennis.

Yeah. So they as young athletes still found , a way , to participate in sports. But it- Mm ... it's unfortunate 'cause over time, you know, we've looked where a young girl may be able to play baseball, but at some point they say, "Hey, hand me that baseball. Here's a softball." And- Yeah. Well- I, I love softball, but choice should be there

Merrie Fidler: yeah. Well, they're, they're, they're both great games and, , the difference , is that, , girls can't get a college scholarship in baseball yet. Yeah. , And they can in softball, so they're, it's gonna take time, but hopefully in the not too distant future there will be softball and baseball for girls, and actually there should be softball and baseball for boys.

Mark Corbett: Agreed. [00:42:00] Agreed. W- well, I think that's a good note to end on. This has been a lot of fun, Merrie. It's always great talking with you, I gotta tell you. I mean, uh-

Merrie Fidler: Well, I always enjoy talking about the league, so anytime.

Mark Corbett: All right. Well, I wanna thank you all again for joining us here today with Merrie Fidler, and with the All American Girls Professional Baseball League, and historian of the game, who I always love talking with.

It's got so much history to talk about, and we got, we got a little wee bit of it today. I would encourage you to go to their site and learn more about. That's the aagpbl.com.

It's aagpbl.org. .org. Thank you.

Yeah. Well, we're gonna have to change that at the end of this. I'll have to change my exit here. I'm an astro. But yeah, aagpbl.org, boys and girls, and you'll ha- there's, uh, plenty good information. Plenty on, on year of year what happened with the teams, the players on these teams. Exciting stuff. But Merrie, again, thank you for joining us here today.

I [00:43:00] appreciate a great deal. My pleasure. All righty.

Special Thanks to Merrie Fidler, the AAGPBL Board Secretary for sharing a peak into the history of the All American Girls Professional Baseball League. You will find links to AAGPBL.ORG and a link to Merries book in this episode's show notes. This has been a special Women in Baseball edition on BaseballBiz On Deck. If you enjoyed this show, go ahead like and subscribe to BaseballBiz On Deck. You may also find BaseballBiz on Deck, on YouTube, iHeart Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, and at baseball biz on deck dot com.