Rays & Brewers World Series Wrap Up & CBA Future

385 BaseballBiz RaysUp World Series

Mark Corbett: [00:00:00] Welcome to BaseballBiz On Deck. I'm Mark Corbett, and with me of course, is Mr. Mat Germain. How you doing, buddy? 

Mat Germain: I'm doing all right, Mark. , Regardless of the outcome of the World Series, I was ready to be happy about whoever won it. 

Mark Corbett: I hear that, I hear that, and I agree with that. I keep hearing DeWayne Staats' voice saying, "Well, we hope you enjoyed the game, if not the results," something along those lines.

But the thing of it was, I, I, well, I couldn't be completely happy for the Brewers. I was so damn happy it wasn't the Dodgers or the Yankees, and that's all I could think. I think, damn. I mean, a, a young team, a, a seasoned coach manager. you see what Pat Murphy has done over the years, whether it be, was it in college, new Notre Dame, I think Arizona State, and then being the bench coach with the, Brewers before becoming the manager.

And you [00:01:00] and I were talking earlier this year, probably just a few weeks back, and I said how impressed I was that Pat Murphy sat a player down. I couldn't even tell you who it was or anything else about it except that, "You know what? You didn't do what you're supposed to do. Sit down." And he benched him. I don't-- can't remember if it was for an entire game or the remainder of that game.

And I said, "That's stand up." You know what to expect with a guy like that 

Mat Germain: Yeah. And, and you know what? That might be a lesson for Kevin Cash in a way, not to be overly friendly with the players and to be a little bit more stern on occasion to kind of wave , the proverbial stick around. , But I, I think you're right.

Like, Pa- Pat Murphy definitely led the way of that organization in terms of how they were going to behave. And to be quite honest, he had the players, like, completely bought into that, relentless mindset, meaning, "We're not gonna give you an inch. Whatever it is that we have, we're gonna put it on the field."

And that's what they knew they needed to get by the [00:02:00] Dodgers. Yeah. And, and you can tell the difference from 2025 to 2026. It was a team that had learnt those lessons. I kind of liken it to the Edmonton Oilers in the early Gretzky days. They went up against the New York Islanders, who were Mike Bossy, Bryan Trottier, a lot of great players on that team, and they, they lost to that team originally when they probably should have won based on talent because the Islanders were willing to sacrifice everything to win it, and the Oilers just weren't.

So as soon as you learn that lesson, your, your game and your dedication and your preparation elevate to the point where the other team's gonna have to be perfect or near perfect in order to get by you, right? So I'm even impressed the Rays got that one win or, through against the Brewers because they only lost two out of 13 games in the entire playoffs.

Mark Corbett: Jeez. the... It was, it was absolutely insane. And I, I, I digress for a moment, but [00:03:00] I couldn't help myself when I saw that bit of footage with Ken Rosenthal from The Athletic talking to Taylor Walls. Let's see if I can find the exact quote. But it's basically like, "Did you feel like you have to win this game to, to be- show that you proved that you're to be here or you can be here?"

Something to that effect. And alls I could think is who in God's green Earth gave you the, the, I don't know, the insanity to say it. Here it was. "Was it important to win one just to show you're on the you're in the league?" Something to that effect anyway. And Walls said, "No." I think that's pretty dis- that was pretty disrespectful, 

And, and he was. It was. And I thought, I... And maybe it's because of being a small market team and I'm always on the defensive and I feel like everybody's always coming after us, but I felt like they were doing that too before, the Brewers got here. 

Mat Germain: I'll be fair here. do you remember when the, Yankees lost to the Red Sox after that [00:04:00] crazy, you know, they were down three-nothing in the series, the Red Sox came back?

There was a lot of that going on in terms of disrespect, right? Yeah. So and that was towards a, a Yankee organization, so reporters are relentlessly looking for an angle to create a story. Sure. And that's just, their job, and it sucks. It's not something that I think I could pull off in the same way, of being low level, ethically I guess is the best way to put it.

 I think there's a lack of respect a lot of times for, for just how hard, in this case, it was to accomplish what the Rays had accomplished to that point of being the best team in the American League despite, uh, being outspent by organizations three to four-fold on occasion, right? Like, honestly, it's just...

it's ridiculous. It, it would be like as if you were in Formula One, right? And the team, that, that was, just, just a mom and pop sort of garage, car- Yeah ... ended up beating Ferrari and, and - with, with the amount of souped up things [00:05:00] that Ferrari can put on their cars. That's the kind of thing that the Rays are pulling off.

The, the question that I kinda come across now, and, and like I'm sitting back and I know they pulled Drew Rasmussen. Everybody's gonna talk about that. Yeah. But the offense just was not there, and I don't know, it's not exactly the approach. It's more of the, the need to elevate that talent a little bit.

And, and I don't know- If they can maintain what they already have while still adding that for next year. But they've got to figure it out because, we're seeing it that against the best pitching in the World Series- Yes ... you're going to have to get, some really chippy bats in there, and some of it can be youth.

I mean, Cooper Pratt was the thorn in the side of the Rays this entire series. He's a rookie. So don't be afraid of the whole rookie thing. And as I bring it up online, it's always the thing people bring up. "It can't be a rookie. You can't depend on a rookie." Of course you can, because [00:06:00] people haven't scouted them to death.

They are the perfect thing to have on your team in the World Series, and they're not really self-aware enough to realize the moment is so huge they shouldn't be performing that well, right? So when I talk, look at the Rays for next year, I see Xavier Isaac and I see Theo Gillen as two big pieces, as well as Caden Bodine, who is already MLB ready when it comes to the bat.

, And I look at that and I think, okay, you've got a center fielder who is an upgrade over everything that the Rays had in center field. You've got, Caden Bodine behind the plate who's definitely a, a bat upgrade over Nick Fortes. And you've got Xavier Isaac who, depending on how Jonathan Aranda ends up being or, or Yandy Diaz's health with, with everything that's going on, through a big, another long season, maybe he comes into play.

And then you look at Cedric Mullins potentially being replaced by Jacob Melton. The Rays are gonna have a plethora of youth [00:07:00] on next year's team. How it all shakes out, whether or not they decide to go on the trade market, and I think you asked, you sent me some notes before the, podcast tonight, throwing out some ideas, and I, and I've been racking my brain with this in terms of who they could go and target and bring on board as a free agent or a trade target.

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: And I do think it'll be a trade target. And I think Casey Schmidt is the guy that I would go after or somebody similar. And, and the reasons why is because they're sound defensively, which the Rays will always prioritize as much as they can. He's affordable sat- salary-wise. He's got three years left, so it's not a one-year kind of trade.

And he's actually, an upgrade at second base, in terms of everything as a package, defensively, offensively, as a pesky player that you can't get by in a lineup. There's no, club, team issues with him because I, I thought of Ketel Marte, but they're trying to get rid of him in, in [00:08:00] Arizona, and I'm like, "Well, why?"

 do you really wanna bring that in? So there's a, there's an issue with everybody else. Bo Bichette is apparently willing to stick around in, in New York and, and, and ride that ship a little bit longer. So there's, there's not really as many options as you would think out there. Jazz Chisholm is probably not gonna choose the Rays, and they're probably not gonna choose him.

Mark Corbett: No. 

Mat Germain: So, internally, there's some youth guys that you could look at, Carson Williams. there's also, Cooper Kinney, a couple of guys that they brought in. But, like, , Jorge Mateo is probably going to be a free agent. I think there's enough holes, in there that the Rays can make a trade, and they have, right now we're, we're in, heading into November.

They're gonna have the Rule 5 Draft. They're gonna have some roster crunch issues to sort out. Maybe that's when they pull the trigger on, on making one move that can potentially help them for the long term next year. 

Mark Corbett: Well, looking at next year, part of what I sent you was, from the research was [00:09:00] who may not be with the Rays next year.

Mm. Now, we know that any team, even you hear the Brewers last night, they said, "Celebrating with this team today 'cause you don't know wh- where we all will be in a year." And that was just being honest. And I'm looking here and seeing, let's see, Freddy Peralta, , he'll be eligible for free agency next year.

Let's see, Gavin Lux, same. And really, Gavin Lux hasn't been around to do anything. Or, or Jorge Mateo, as you sent as well. Mm. Jake Fraley, Austin Slater, and then who has a mutual option to stay or leave in 2027? None other than Nick Martinez. And I was like, "Whoa." Drew, Drew has a club option for 2027.

Taylor Walls, I believe same for a 3.1 million club option. So that kind of gives you an idea of, ... Oh, and Cedric Mullins, of course. You mentioned that earlier, I believe. He has an option for 2027. So what does this mean? Who do we think of these gentlemen either that we will wanna [00:10:00] keep or who will wanna seek employment elsewhere?

Mat Germain: Well, I think you're gonna see a complete, an extreme makeover Rays style when it comes to the starting pitching. And, and the reason I say that is, is Nick Martinez is gonna be 36 next year. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: How much they wanna invest in that, I have no idea. He just looked great all season long. The, the good thing with Nick is you can probably negotiate a new deal and make it one and a plus or, something that is more palatable to the Rays budget-wise.

 and I think he's enjoyed his year enough that he would consider it. and he's looked great coming out of the pen as well. Yeah. So if ever things happened and, and, he was willing to go in there, by all means. We know Griffin Jax looked great. He had a significant innings jump. So as we've seen many times, will he be healthy?

Will he not? So the three big question marks are Drew Rasmussen, Shane McClanahan, and Ian Seymour. So Ian Seymour is [00:11:00] just, like, an enigma because we saw him kind of break down towards the end. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: Now, was it tiredness? Was it because people were scouting him more effectively? is he not being as deceptive as he was?

There's a whole bunch of issues in there that the Rays will have to try to figure out. But again, Shane McClanahan, I do not put any weight towards. So if you take him out of the equation and you do decide to move Drew Rasmussen in a trade or not to go with the option for whatever reason, they, they're gonna pick up the option.

The, I think to me- Right ... the, the, the question with Drew Rasmussen is either they trade him or they keep him. It's one or the other. Like, they're not just gonna let him, go. So, knowing the Rays and the way they behave, I think they're going to trade him. Now- The good news with, for Rays fans out there is the Rays, we've seen it over and over again.

Griffin Jax, outstanding , guy they went and got, and they revamped him [00:12:00] completely. They brought in Nick Martinez, and he was having a career year this year. Like, never has he been any better. It doesn't matter who... I don't wanna say it doesn't matter who they go out and get, but they will figure out- Mm-hmm

the starting pitching. So when I look at this situation all together and I think, okay, Drew Rasmussen, health-wise, they just can't risk keeping him- 

Mark Corbett: Yeah ... 

Mat Germain: and having him break down next year. 'Cause it, when, when a team like the Rays has that happen, it kills the value, and it kills their entire momentum as an organization for the next decade.

 when we look at all the trades that the Rays have made over the years, Tyler Glasnow included, and you see the impact of that. Now, that is the other point I'll make. Tyler Glasnow's return, which is Ryan Pepiot, will be returning from injury. So to me, he slots into the rotation. So you've got Ryan Pepiot, Griffin Jax, Nick Martinez, which I think they'll bring back because [00:13:00] his trade value is just not there, and you have to sign him 'cause he's a free agent.

So you kind of, mitigate that a little bit. Ian Seymour, to me, if he's still healthy, he gets another shot. He kind of gets to build on what he was able to accomplish this year, and you see what it, where it leads you. And Brody Hopkins is the guy that I want to see them put back into the rotation and see how it goes.

They have other options. They've got Ty Johnson. They've got a whole bunch of, of arms that they could kind of look at developing. But to me, the Rays are always going to be able to go out in the market somewhere- Mm-hmm ... whether it's Rule 5, whether it's on another team, a veteran that they identify things that they're able to improve on, and make that the additional guy.

And again, at the trade deadline, look for another piece. The other caveat with all that is Freddy Peralta. The relationship between the Rays and Freddy is one of those that I, I don't know where it leads, but I know he really [00:14:00] enjoyed the revamp that they did. So what do you do if you're Freddy, especially after the dud at the end?

Like, are you able to capitalize still on the revamped couple of months, or do you decide to stick it out with the Rays and continue building on that with them for at least one more year? So could it be like a one plus an option with a major buyout, or could it be more of a, three-year deal? The Rays have been known to do that with some guys, like Drew Rasmussen is a good example.

So there's, there's potential there that they go that route instead of targeting somebody else. 

Mark Corbett: Well, Mat, as far as Peralta is concerned, I think that he would want to stay. I could be mistaken. I think because he feels like he has found a groove here. Mm-hmm. And I think he wants to build on it. I, I don't think he's, he sees that he is exactly where he wants to be just yet.

And Martinez, Martinez, he is so much more than the pitcher that [00:15:00] he is. He's a great pitcher. Mm-hmm. But he, as a leader, he has meant so much to the team s- so I don't know if ... Hmm. I, I think keeping Martinez is important, I really do. I don't know that the Rays want to lose that component simply because of the pitching itself, because of everything else he's able to do.

It's a- Yep ... it's a great team. I, I don't know what it's going to look like next year. I'm always amused and amazed by what's, some of these decisions that are made. Again, you and I at the beginning of the year said, "Oh yeah, Rays, they'll be okay. They'll, they'll do ... they'll win 50%- ... of their games."

Yeah. And thank you very much, Josh, again, for proving us wrong. but the, The essence of this team has been such, so strong. But, some of the notes I sent you looking at post-season- 

Mat Germain: Mm-hmm ... 

Mark Corbett: I was a little dismayed to see this distinct differences of the, performance. I think Yandy pretty much stayed even with what he had been doing, [00:16:00] pre-season, I mean, in the regular season.

But what really stood out to me was the bullpen The bullpen during the postseason just seemed like they were really, really struggling and 

Mat Germain: And again, I br- I blame Kevin Cash a lot for that. So there are guys that he could have went to instead of the guys he went to, who have not had as much, time against the other team, which like Kevin Kelly being brought in the way he was over and over again just overexposes him.

Mark Corbett: Yep. 

Mat Germain: where was Cole Sulser? Where was, Brody Hopkins? Where was all the guys that had gotten them to this point and were sure things? Like, you can look up the stats in terms of, all the way through the season. Cole Sulser was one of the key guys in the pen the entire year. So why are we carrying other guys that aren't really being used?

 I, I don't feel like the, the roster makeup in the World Series was ideal. using Jorge Mateo as just a bench guy [00:17:00] to run, eh, I, I would have liked to see somebody that's more impactful on the bench, to be quite honest. there, there's some things on... Like, you already had Cedric Mullins, so you already had that runner.

 I, I feel like the Rays are still learning lessons on how to be a little bit more determined, when it comes to those kinds of things. the, the Dodgers have done it year after year, Mark. They, they showed the entire league how to do it, where you bring in three closers. Like, you literally go and get three closers for a reason because when it comes down to those games in the tight moments, you wanna bring the guy in at the right moment, not the right inning.

 It has to be calculated to the point where you're able to slide guys back into the pen that, that can actually get the job done. Shane McClanahan as a reliever to me has a lot of merit, if he hasn't broken himself completely yet. 

Mark Corbett: Hmm. 

Mat Germain: I don't know why they're still trying him as a, as a pi- a starter because it doesn't make [00:18:00] any sense to me.

He's just not gonna get there and be healthy enough to do it. r- but I'm really curious to see, some of the, high leverage guys that they do have in the minors or guys like Ty Johnson. Ty Johnson is a guy I could see with a full season under his belt next year if they use him in the pen and they give him enough, seasoning.

 he could be one of those guys that along with Baker or whoever else they have going at the time would be really solid. Then you go out and get that third. I think the Rays were really hurt by Ka- Garrett Clevenger not being his dominant self from the previous season. Like, that really took a lot of steam out of their pen.

 but you need more than that, right? You do need a lot of options and, and the Brewers pen was just relentless. th- you gotta tip your cap to them. Like, they really put it up there 

Mark Corbett: They just knocked it down, period. . I want to come back to a moment about what you were saying about Kevin and, and some of his choices.

Who's there, on the roster [00:19:00] game after game? But let's see. Looking at bullpen stats, and for the Brewers versus the Rays, the innings pitched, the Brewers had their bullpen pitch 21. the Rays had 19 and two-thirds. Okay. The, earned runs allowed, the Brewers only allowed three runs on their bullpen, and the Rays allowed nine.

The ERA, instrumental, 1.29 for the Brewers, 4.12 for the Rays Walks, another cri- critical one here. Three walks is what the Brewers allowed. We allowed nine. Mm-hmm. And I, I st- I don't know. 

Mat Germain: And, and to be honest, like, it, it... In a regular World Series where teams are up and down and it's a longer stretch, 4.11 is not really that terrible, because it's a small sample.

You can have one blowout game- Sure ... and it totally throws things [00:20:00] askew. but I think the, But if you feel like 

Mark Corbett: they're already m- but if you already feel like they're misplacing pitchers at where they are in the game, that's almost- Mm-hmm ... going to happen though, Mat. I mean- 

Mat Germain: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I don't know what the answer is, but I do know this.

When you're pulling Drew Rasmussen after 40 some odd pitches, Madison Bumgarner was used three times as a starter in one series. There was no babying that arm. Like- Yeah ... and, and I understand the Rays are respecting the player and the issues that he's had in the past, all that. It's very, solid on that front.

But if that's the case, don't use him. If all you can do is 40 pitches, keep him for the next game so you can get the 100 pitches, and trust your other guys to get you there. That's my beef with it is, is don't use somebody like Drew Rasmussen early and, and like, and, and short rest when you know all the health issues he has, and now you're - cutting yourself [00:21:00] short by f- 45 pitches.

Like, why would you do that? Like, keep him for the next game and go with somebody else that can actually perform to the level that you've known. I don't understand this whole, we've gotta shove every, starting pitcher in every game now, because, it... I don't like it. And, and- Yeah ... it leaves the pen rusty, and then you get what you get out of the pen.

I... Just keep everybody in the same freaking roles that got you there. Like, honestly. Like, why do you have to reinvent the wheel just because you're in the World Series? I understand late in the game, if, if some- there's a key matchup and everything else, like that makes a lot of sense, especially when you, when you're weighing it as a, a bullpen thing.

I think there was a guy they brought in, I think it was Freddy Peralta during the ALCS, right? Yeah. Where, where he was brought in to, to get two outs, and he got the two outs, and then he was still able to do a start. That's beautiful. That's great. I understand that completely. But the way that they're [00:22:00] doing it with, in terms of like the starters, which was the strength of the Rays, was that they could roll five starters all the way through.

My contention is pick four, 'cause you do have the break in there that you're able to rest somebody and then you're still on regular rest. Pick four and keep them as freaking starters. Don't start meddling with those four. Those four are golden. The other fifth? Sure. Do all, everything you want with them.

 but those four should be, like, untouchable essentially. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I like that idea. It'd be nice if we had it that way. And I, I... Here's another thing too. The whole idea of switching out pitchers lefty, righty, lefty, righty, and all that, to me that's, that's almost disturbing. and even with your people you have in your lineup, that you're, you're switching out a player, you're bringing him because, oh, they're bringing the other one.

I think, ... That puts a dent in the mindset of the players that are, are in that lineup. they have a rhythm. Just like a pitcher before he [00:23:00] goes out to the mound, he has a rhythm in preparation for things. Well, that whole lineup, they have a preparation. You come in there and you pull Aronda out for one of the p- Or you, you come in and you're mixing and matching them after three or four innings because of whoever might be pitching.

I just think that disturbs a balance, a symmetry that's probably already there. 

Mat Germain: You're absolutely right. Like, essentially the Brewers kept being the Brewers. The Rays tried to morph into something else. And I have no idea what that was. But, it was disappointing, honestly. And I get that the bats didn't show up, but I warned everybody about that before.

Yeah. When you have so much off time, your timing's gonna be off. So I don't even look at the offensive statistics because I get that a lot of guys will have cold streaks after they've had a lot of time off. And, and each time that that happens, you can't help but, but just hope for the best as they, they hope to get everything kinda working at their, in the key moments.[00:24:00] 

So the, again, the, the big question mark that you kind of get to is what changes are the Rays going to make? do they do any change strategically next year? Do they spend some money? Do they go after anybody? I have no idea. 

Mark Corbett: Well, the, the ownership has given the presence, this man saying, "Hey, we're gonna do what it takes."

I got a sense while they're not gonna spend $300 million- Mm ... I think that they could f- exceed maybe 30% more than what they did this year. I don't know what that number's gonna be either, Mat. But I, I... They have put forth that they are going to be willing to spend to make a strong team. 

Mat Germain: I just wanna throw this out there.

Do you know how much money Willy Adames is making in 2027? 

Mark Corbett: Is it 9 million? 

Mat Germain: 32. 

Mark Corbett: Oh, sweet mother of... We're not kidding. Oh, geez. 

Mat Germain: Ooh. So Willy Adames signed a seven-year, $182 million deal with the San Francisco [00:25:00] Giants, and he's getting paid 32 million a year for the next five years. 

Mark Corbett: Say it again. Say it again.

Mat Germain: 32 million for the next five years, Mark. Like, honestly. So when you're going into the free agent market, you're just basically saying, "We weren't able to figure it out on our own." "We need some help, and we're willing to throw all the money at it that we, we have to," right? But the Rays have been wily with like Nick Martinez, a good example.

 Charlie - Morton, once upon a time was another example. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: There'll be somebody they can spend some money on. It won't be that much, but, as we were just noting before, could it be a reliever? 

Mark Corbett: Well, if you get a strong one. , In these days is a reliever and a closer the same thing? 

Mat Germain: Yeah, exactly.

And the other th- option that I had, in there was what about JP Crawford? if they do wanna move on , from Taylor Walls or try something else or add to their infield, Jorge Mateo is [00:26:00] leaving, instead of digging into the minors for somebody else, maybe JP Crawford can play a versatile role, sort of like a, a second Ben Williamson, right, on the team.

 but I think he would want more of a permanent starting spot than- Mm ... than what the Rays would be willing to offer, I believe. but you never know. I, I, I just think that when I look at the roster altogether and I know the pieces coming in, if you're able to go out and get somebody like Casey Schmidt, I feel like it finishes your infield.

The caveat to that would be Brandon Lowe. Let's say he can't come to terms with the Pirates for whatever reason. They seem like a match made in heaven based on how his season went, but could he, return to the Rays if things don't go his way in free agency? Maybe. I don't know. 

Mark Corbett: Wow. I mean, there was all that talk about he had trouble with the turf and his knee and that, there's 80, what is it, 81 games that he has to play on the turf plus whatever out there in [00:27:00] the world.

And- Yeah ... but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I c- I could see that. Hey, I'm gonna go throw you a complete curve ball here, my friend. Ooh, 

Mat Germain: I like 

Mark Corbett: it. Get ready. You are now the owner of the Orlando Dreamers, Mat. Okay. And it's, you're our new expansion team here in the MLB- ... and I'm making up rules as we go along.

And the first rule is I'm giving you the opportunity to pick three players from the Brewers for your new team. Who are you going to pick? 

Mat Germain: From the Brewers? Why the Brewers, just out of curiosity? 

Mark Corbett: Oh, just for fun because they're the World Series winners. I mean, we're, we're, we'll, we'll, we'll broaden after this, but I wanna start here just 'cause a lot of it, it's fresh in a lot of our memories of who those people are.

But, i- if you were gonna pick three Brewers, who would you pick? 

Mat Germain: Any Brewers? 

Mark Corbett: Yes. 

Mat Germain: Any Brewers at all? 

Mark Corbett: You can make them all pitchers. Well, Jax- 

Mat Germain: Jackson Chourio, Willam Contreras, and, Jacob Misiorowski . 

Mark Corbett: There you go. 

Mat Germain: I'll go with that. 

Mark Corbett: That's- Yeah ... that's simple and it's good. 

Mat Germain: That- 

Mark Corbett: I like it ... that's 

Mat Germain: [00:28:00] great. 

Mark Corbett: All right, but n- now, now I'm broadening it.

Pick- Okay ... pick three - players across all of MLB 

Mat Germain: Okay. I'll go with, Oh my goodness, that, that makes, does make it tougher. I'll stick with Jacob Misiorowski . I think he's in it for the long haul and, and he's an interesting guy. The g- I, the question I have that comes to mind is do I take Junior Caminero?

I'd go with Bobby Witt Jr. 

Mark Corbett: Mm-hmm. 

Mat Germain: And who's the last guy? 

Mark Corbett: Do you want Ellie DeLaCruz? 

Mat Germain: it's one of those things where it always depends on, on how you wanna build the rest of your team and what kind of budget you're working with, et cetera. So like, but, but if I had to go with just the, the, the, the, the, the best player that, kinda hits it on all ends, I mean, Shohei Ohtani's getting a little bit older.

Aaron Judge is getting a little bit older. I don't wanna go with Ben Rice 'cause [00:29:00] he's just too much Yankee to him.

So many issues, Mark. That's a- You're throwing me a huge curve ball. I don't even know- Yeah ... how to deal with this. Let's 

Mark Corbett: see. Y- no, I, I, I know. I mean, you look out there, I was talking with somebody today. Pete Crow 

Mat Germain: Armstrong. I'll go Pete Crow Armstrong. 

Mark Corbett: Okay. PCA - 

Mat Germain: Pete Crow Armstrong, Bobby Witt Jr., and Jacob Mierowski.

Start with that. 

Mark Corbett: I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah. Okay. Orlando Dreamers, I'm looking forward to seeing what you're doing here soon. That's... 

Mat Germain: That's a heck of a draft there. 

Mark Corbett: Oh, gosh. No, I know, what is it? 'Cause the NHL did have some expansion recently. Mm-hmm. A couple of years ago, and I know the, Lightning, they lost, I think, their, their, goalie, who was just an amazing player.

Yeah. I'm not, I cannot rem- ca- can't for the life of me at the moment. But it's just like, can... That is a frightening thing to me, to think once you have expansion, that somebody can basically come in and cherry-pick, from different teams who they can, who [00:30:00] they can have. The 

Mat Germain: leagues have been really good about allowing you to protect your core.

Yeah. Like, essentially, right? And, and what people usually leave behind are, like people who are getting a little bit overpaid, people that don't nesh- necessarily mesh with the other players for whatever reason. they, that's happened. The, the best example though of how to do it right was the Vegas Knights.

 like they really hit it out of the park in terms of building their team and hitting the ground running. and the fact that they, they were able to kind of take it all the way to the end is, is pretty incredible as early as, and as young a franchise as they are. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. Yeah, that, that's right, 'cause that, I think they're the one that took the goalie from the, the Lightning.

Yeah. I can't remember. I think that was the case. I'm not sure. But coming back to the wild world of baseball, and I'm hoping there is baseball. I mean, there's probably just a little over 100 days before pitchers and catchers report, but, December 1st, there may be saying there's no need to report. 

Mat Germain: I do not expect [00:31:00] baseball in April or May, essentially.

That's, that's where I stand right now based on what I'm hearing. I'm hoping it changes. there's a lot of things that could sway things one way or the other. and to be fair with, with MLB, there's a lot of good in what they're, they're moving towards, right? Yeah. I like the expanded playoffs. I like expansion altogether.

I like the reduced games. There, like, there's a lot of positive things that they're throwing out there, in my opinion, or that I support. but the problem is the, the whole cap, no moving issue. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: I don't know how the, the youth involved in the CBA now, for the minors, players, how that dynamic changes things.

So it is possible that the players break, essentially, i- is what I'm saying this year. So maybe it gets done earlier than we're all expecting [00:32:00] because that youth voice gets louder and louder and louder as things move along. so we can hope to, to that because to me it's gonna happen sooner or later.

Like, the, the MLB, MLB as a whole is not gonna sit there and be the only league without a salary cap. They're not. They're just... 'Cause I mean, they're getting pointed out by all the other, owners around the world in every single sport there is. Yeah. And saying, "Well, why are you the only sport without, a salary cap?"

And to me, if I'm one of the players, I, I've got to take my head out of the sand and realize that it's in my best interest. Like, hockey is not broken because they have a salary cap. NBA is not broken because they have a salary cap. Neither is the NFL, neither is MLS. Like, there's, there's just a, a common sense approach to things.

To me, concentrate more on the, getting the free agency earlier, concentrate more on protecting players when they're injured. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: getting paid younger, having more incentives for [00:33:00] performance. there's a bunch of issues that they should be focused on instead of salary cap. 

Mark Corbett: Oh, I agree. And I'm curious to see where it all lands, too.

The MLBPA, they've gone through some leadership changes recently, and I know that's still kind of a issue, so. And to hear some say that there's n- not, that MLB is not really getting any kind of response back from the Players Association. I think the no response is the response. That they don't like anything that you're throwing to them just yet.

I've... And, Mat, forgive me if I'm wrong here, but when I look at baseball, and I look what the Mets, I look what the Dodgers and the Yankees spend, and I say, "Well, the reason you need a cap is 'cause these morons are spending all that money on the players." If they, I mean, I know it's a monopoly, you all get in a room and say, "Well, we're not gonna spend any more than this."

But if each of you had just some semblance of s- responsibility with your budgets, that that could take pre- care part of the problem. The Dodgers, the [00:34:00] Dodgers, how many, how much are they, how many Bobby Bonilla plans have they got right now with Ohtani? Deferred income for years and years to come, 

It's like they'll be paying him 20 years after he's retired, "We still got him on salary." That kind of a idiocy should never be part of any kind of business plan. 

Mat Germain: I'm not even looking at that, okay? Just hear me out for a sec. 10 years ago, how much money did, did the owners make from gambling? No, honestly.

Yeah. 

Mark Corbett: No, no, I, I don't know that number, but it's, it's insignificant comparison. 

Mat Germain: Zero. Yeah. They made zero from gambling. They're making over $1.3 billion- Yes ... nowadays in gambling, okay? So j- before you talk about salary cap and spending and everything else, like, just start there and say, "Holy cow," like how much of that, of a, that money are the players getting?

Zero. So, so let's say that you, you're, [00:35:00] you're negotiating, right? In your MLBPA. Well, okay, you want a salary cap? Sure. Give us 50% of the take of the gambling money, and we'll, we'll sign that salary cap deal. Like that's, you wanna play that game, it's 50/50 all the way. 50 do- 50% of revenues, which includes the gambling revenues.

Mark Corbett: Why not? 

Mat Germain: So, . there are things that the MLBPA should be proposing and throwing out into the public especially. 'Cause to me, this becomes a public war, eventually if it gr- the more it goes. So if you can sway public opinion loud enough to start, clamoring for things. But like we've seen already with other sports, and, and we saw this in 1994 and et cetera, if you're shutting out the fans, which fa- a lot of fans will be turned off by this, and they're looking for ways to save money, Mark.

Yeah. Like there's a lot of people out there hurting financially. If you're giving them a reason to put a couple of bucks extra and keep them in their [00:36:00] pocket, they're gonna be more than ecstatic to do that. So, and then you throw out there the, the, the women's sports that are suddenly taking a big chunk out of it.

You've got the WNBA that's taking off like crazy and, there's other sports that are coming online and having a lot of success as well. Soccer is growing. There's just a huge recipe here where if MLB is not careful, they're, they're gonna start really hammering away at, at what is nothing but positive momentum over the last two, three, four, five years.

Mark Corbett: Well, yeah, I don't wanna see this whole thing get torn apart because of that. And I think both of them need to be having some active conversations. I think what you were saying, too, is they need to be, they need to be speaking with fans. Not with those commercials they were trying to run that made them look stupid when you've got low, low budgets like the Brewers and Rays out there.

But d- a- and having some conversations maybe with some, some veterans, too. And thinking about the negative [00:37:00] impact they make in communities when they're not there. I mean- Mm-hmm ... where you have events where players are coming to a community and helping raising funds for a, a charitable organization. Well, I, I don't know that they'll be able to do that during that timeframe, simply because they, they can't be interlaced at that point.

And what other things will be suffering? But, and you and I and every fan who wants to spend a few dollars to go to a game, like you said, it's hard times right now with money. I, I'm sorry, I nev- I didn't go to see any of the World Series games. I'm not putting 4,000 bucks up for a ticket. I mean, I know- Yeah

you could get some for less, but jeez. It, you are going to deter the f- future fans, and you're going to piss off the fans who already love the game. And you, you're, when you don't consider us in the equation and you're just looking at trying to find a dollar value for... And I'm speaking of the MLB. Mm-hmm.

 then, then you've, you've lost us already. I, I [00:38:00] don't wanna be sorry about this. 

Mat Germain: Yeah, I think the, the, the league would be in a, in a world of hurt if they did lock out the players for a lengthy period of time. Even, even through part of spring training, I would argue. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: Like, like that whole two-month period would just be deafeningly bad for, for the sport and the players and everybody in between.

 I, I think that , there has to be a mature approach to this one. Like, there, d- it, it shouldn't... There's enough out there for everybody where, the quicker it gets done, and, and honestly, the longer it's signed for, I'm hoping they do a 10-year deal. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: And then, like, just, stop this whole madness of revamping everything every, way too often.

 so I, I think There's a lot of positives. Expansion pressure will be out there. The fact that they're increasing the jobs by how many players are on a team, in term- Yeah ... when you look at all the minors and you look at [00:39:00] the, if you're adding two teams, you're adding four, 80, MLB roster spots.

Well, that's a lot of positions for people that aren't gonna be getting paid if they're on strike, or, or, locked out. So, I think there's a lot of reasons to believe that they'll come to an agreement. but yeah, I don't know, Mark. I think w- eventually we're gonna have to talk to somebody that's more of an expert on the CBA and that's more, in tune with, with the position of each side and what it is that they're actually towing the line for.

Mark Corbett: I'll talk to Lou Schiff. He probably connects with somebody. He's still active as a judge, I believe, to some degree, so he couldn't really address all that. But I'm sure he could put us in with somebody of that nature. 'Cause you're right. Right now just all conjecture, you and I sitting here. The one thing I do know is that nature abhors a vacuum, and where, what's gonna fill it up?

And that's, that's something that all of those folks need to be considered of, 'cause that vacuum being where those fans would be and what are they being pulled into when you're not there. Mm-hmm. And, I didn't [00:40:00] mean to go on and on about CBA. But yeah, it's, I think it does need to, we need to get a much closer look, and looking historically what happened the last time when there was extended periods that there was no baseball.

Mm-hmm. And looking at hitting the bullet points that you're talking about. The gambling to, to me that is, you're right, that has to be one of the essential pieces because you think of hand over fist what MLB's getting with all this, and you can't cry from the poorhouse, that you're in the poorhouse when you're keeping 100% of all that.

Mat Germain: Yep. 

Mark Corbett: It is. 

Mat Germain: Exactly. Yep. So we've, we've kind of covered the, the Rays season. So now Mark, let's say they do lock out the players. Are they still allowed to continue construction on the stadium? 

Mark Corbett: Oh, I would, I would imagine so. But, the thing of it is, I thought it also, will it give the Rays ownership the opportunity to rethink being in Tampa?

Would they- Right ... would Orland- would Orlando in the meantime come up with [00:41:00] something instead of waiting for an expansion? You don't, you don't, yeah, you don't think so? No? 

Mat Germain: No, I, I think the, the expansion in my opinion is gonna be pretty ruthlessly, exploiting, certain areas and, and I- Yeah ... I think they're already chosen the, the, the spots.

Like, I would be really shocked if they didn't put a team in Utah at Salt Lake City and in Nashville. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Mat Germain: I think those are two spots they're looking at very, very, very closely. I also think that when you're looking at expansion that the whole thing about the sister city concept- 

Mark Corbett: Yeah ... 

Mat Germain: I mean, if ever you were going to do it for real and you wanted to bring two spots in, the time to do it is at expansion because then the teams are going from nothing to actually putting it in.

Now, whether or not, ownerships, ownership groups would be willing to do that, I don't know. that's a far-fetched idea I think, but I do think, Salt Lake City to me has a lot of, of, bringing MLB more in the center of [00:42:00] America and, and more evening out a lot of the distances that people have to travel, and bringing the sport a little bit closer to a lot of fans , that otherwise wouldn't have access to it.

Mark Corbett: Right. 

Mat Germain: It's a great sporting city. They have a great network set up there. And Nashville has put in a lot of work to bring in a franchise , and get a team into that state, and actually, start building up a fan base that actually sees the minors and , the, the pros all at the same time. So I'd be surprised if those weren't the two spots.

I'm still pulling for Montreal, being from Montreal, but I just think with the relationships being what they are right now- 

Mark Corbett: Yeah ... 

Mat Germain: and the, the dollar difference, and the fact that, the Olympic Stadium would probably still be the one that they push now that they put a billion dollar roof on it. it makes it really hard to conceive of a, of a scenario where, Stephen Bronfman and, and his group would put, like, whatever, 2.5, 3 billion, whatever it is they end up asking for a franchise.[00:43:00] 

Mark Corbett: Wow. Well, I tell you, Mat If the, Negative Nelly in me is trying to say, "Well, Mark, what are you going to do with your time?" Well, I am going to engage myself more so in, in women in baseball. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna definitely be doing that. I will be looking at the international tournament in Rockford, Illinois for the- Yeah

when they, with the women in baseball. That's gonna be part of that. I'm gonna do that anyway, but I'll probably do deeper dives than what happens with the Australian League. Mm-hmm. There's, there's, there's all these other ones we can look at. The... Heck, remember during COVID just watching, Nippon Ball, man, 

And, what was his name? Eduardo Rodrigo, who was doing some of it r- I think from home. Ca- cameras in Japan, he's there at home, wherever that may have been in the US a- and commentating on that. I know there, there's, the game is going to be there. It may not always be where we'd like to see it with our home team and everything else while the CBA is being determined, [00:44:00] but there is something for us all to see, and I just wanna make sure that the fans still enjoy the game and don't step away from it during what may be a difficult time.

Maybe collegiate ball becomes something that we enjoy more. I don't know. 

Mat Germain: Maybe. I, I, I would love to be able to get, more fans out to the, the minor league games as well if... I know they can't take place either because they're, they're now part of that CBA process. 

Mark Corbett: Right. 

Mat Germain: but, I do think that when the last time happened, they set up some sort of exhibition games where the players were actually performing, 

So you could end up with that kind of scenario as well, where we're covering, those kinds of, of events. But, but what I see happening more and more will be, like, fans leaning more into, like, you've got, March Madness going on. You've got, hockey will be getting into the playoffs, and NBA will be getting to the playoffs, and there's a lot of other things that'll grab people's interests.

So I, I, I [00:45:00] think that people will be easily distracted into other spheres. 

Mark Corbett: Yep. 

Mat Germain: A- and that's really the risk. That, that is what MLB should be fearing most. Not a salary cap or not. It should be how do we keep everybody happy and tuned in to MLB as much as we can without, opening the door to other avenues.

Mark Corbett: Well, let's just hope that they're wise enough to take your advice there, Mat, and stick it between the earlobes and say, "Oh my gosh, we do need to take care of our fans first." Fans first should be the philosophy through and through. They could take that from our good buddy Mr. Cole there with the Savannah Bananas.

 Mm-hmm. He is a fans first organization. So maybe that's what we do. They're expanding that league more and more with new teams all the time. Maybe it's Banana Ball, my friend. 

Mat Germain: I'll throw one last thing at you, Mark. Knowing if you're an MLB owner and you know how things might go, 'cause you know what you're willing to acce- have to not accept as a league.

Do you offer extensions [00:46:00] before they locked out the players, knowing that things are gonna go a certain way? 

Mark Corbett: I think that would be masterful. Yeah. I think that would be, if you're on the smart side of this, you do that and you do it now, right now, because that door's closing, 

Mat Germain: and- Yeah, so I see, November as a big extension, timeframe for a lot of players because though they might be able to get what right now we would consider as, a, a regular value, afterwards, after the CBA's signed, it might be seen as extremely cheap compared to where they could go with things, especially with the players, with teams potentially being forced into a floor to where they need to spend a certain amount of money.

Mark Corbett: Wow. Mm-hmm. Well, I tell you what, my friend, I'm just gonna go ahead and wrap this up here unless there's something else you wanna chat about. 

Mat Germain: No, I think we covered enough . 

Mark Corbett: Yeah, I do too. But I do wanna say thank you to [00:47:00] the Tampa Bay Rays organization for a wonderful year and a lot of excitement. Mm-hmm. I appreciate everything from Erik Neander to the new ownership to Kevin and all the players.

 wh- while we may sit here in, in judgment of some of the decisions that are made, we just absolutely love you guys and we're, well, it's been great to see everything that you've done this year, and I'm hoping that we get the opportunity to do this and assess all the way from spring training through.

We'll keep talking baseball here, so don't worry about that, boys and girls. There's plenty to see. That's right. 

Mat Germain: And there's 14 jealous, American League, teams that would've loved to have their team in the World Series at all, 

Mark Corbett: so- ... 

Mat Germain: just leave it there. 

Mark Corbett: All right. I wanna thank y'all again for joining Mat here and I here today on Baseball Biz On Deck, and we look forward to talking with you guys again real soon.

Mat Germain: Bong. 

Mark Corbett: Ooh, that's one of the best. 

Mat Germain: It was a smooth [00:48:00] kind of, ah, lol, bongs. 

Mark Corbett: I like that one. I like that.