Larry Rothschild - Part 2 - Relegation, Pitch Clock, ABS & Tropicana Field

Part 2 - Larry Rothschild on BaseballBiz

Mat Germain: Yeah. Well, I have a another question for you. 'cause Mark and I have, have thrown this, uh, idea around and, and we, it, it comes from basically watching football or soccer in, in the United Kingdom.

And they have a system of relegation, right? 

Larry Rothschild: Oh, I've, I've played with this, 

Mat Germain: yes. 

Larry Rothschild: Because I'm watching a lot of soccer right now. 

Mat Germain: Right. So there's 

Larry Rothschild: Arsenal, 

Mat Germain: there's 10 to 15 cities right now you could point, could support a major league baseball. Why don't they set up that second tier league and make that the driving factor, then you would treat your players and pitchers especially a lot differently than they currently do.

Larry Rothschild: Well, I think it would do a lot of things. There wouldn't be tanking for draft picks. 

Mat Germain: Exactly.

Larry Rothschild: I mean, that's what it prevents but I think there's big problems with that and that, the triple AAA, you're gonna have players with huge salaries that are gonna be playing in [00:02:00] AAA and I'm not sure they can support that.

So the, 

Mat Germain: the transfer system that they have in the UK helps with that. Right. You can manage finance, moving things around, but 

Larry Rothschild: Yeah. And, you know, they're throwing around the salary cap and all those things, but I think, , at the end of the day, I've, since I've been watching soccer more since I've retired, or European football, .

It. I've thought about that a lot. And it's a great system. It really is. And I've talked to somebody who played, in the Premier League, , whose son plays baseball now. , And he said, yeah, he said, you can. But I, it would take a major transition and it would, it would, I if you gave it years, it would be great.

You know, it would change a lot of things. 

Mat Germain: Like the carrot to the owners that exist right now is that you're gonna charge every franchise that comes in a billion dollars each. Right? Like you're not mm-hmm. Giving these franchises away. Right. So you begin with $12 [00:03:00] billion injection into baseball in general, and then you go from there.

And I don't think there's many owners that would say no to that. Well. 

Larry Rothschild: And also theoretically you'd keep a fan base through the year because you've got a chance to getting relegated and they don't want that. So they're gonna be cheering for the team, , no matter what. And you look at the end of the year with 80% of baseball, now they've tried to solve it by extending the playoffs and it's just a watered down.

Mat Germain: Mm-hmm. 

Larry Rothschild: Hot mess. I mean, I think I, I know, you know, the fans and all the, the thing that's driven attendance, I really believe is gambling. No, no question. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: It's why the NFL became the number one sport in the United States. If you go back years, you always had the sheets and the bars and, all those that, that drove NFL.

Well now baseball has it and it's driving any attendance, I believe in baseball quite a bit. , I think you can even enhance that. [00:04:00] It would be, it's a very interesting, I don't know if they've looked at it. I certainly have been thinking, and that's funny you brought it up because I think it's a great idea how it can be put into play.

I, it might have drawbacks that you can't overcome. I don't know 

Mat Germain: if, if there's any time to do it. I think now is the time because in my opinion, it would expose more markets to baseball consistently. Mm-hmm. That need now and can't really get into the door. Right. And they're not gonna set up a triple A team because it's not, you know, the draw that they need to be considered professional.

Larry Rothschild: Mm-hmm. So, 

Mat Germain: yeah, I agree. I think it has a lot of legs and I think that baseball's made a lot of changes recently. And that's one kudos that I would give them. The, the pitch clock is the other one that they've done recently that I know 

changes. 

Larry Rothschild: Yeah. I see. I, I don't disagree with you. I do have my hesitation with it because I think it's now become like.[00:05:00] 

Let's just do everything and get it over with, let's just get it over instead. Like, if you're at a game with your son, you know, you could talk in between. And I've been to, well I, I went back to the Cubs two years ago 'cause Kerry Wood's number was being retired. They asked me to come, but, so I watch those game, but it's hard to watch a game now.

Like, it's just like if you take a game from 10 year, 20 years ago and put it in faster motion, that's what you're watching. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: And I, maybe it's because , I've watched game differently that, uh, I'm not gonna say old school, but maybe that's it. But there's a tempo to a game and you know, and I know the game has slowed down, so.

Mm-hmm. There's more commercials, . And I think the one thing it affected was the beer sales because, you know, and I thought that might put it, and the other thing is the gambling. It's harder to gamble on every pitch 'cause it's so fast. But, , I think overall it's probably [00:06:00] been good. I think fans like it, but I think there's a tempo to a game that's gone now.

And the beauty of the game, , and the three hour games were not good. But when you taught guys how to pitch,, work fast, throw strikes, change speeds, that worked pretty well. I mean, Bob Gibson pitch games in an hour and a half all the time, right? You know, you, you saw that all the time and put the ball in play and you know, now it's a strikeout.

Doesn't matter. So,, they like walks, so you see deep counts all the time. Um, ground balls aren't necessarily a great thing for a pitcher. They want swings and misses. The three, uh, gradual outcomes, I mean, the whole thing. Just wreaks of uh, not, you know, that's why look, we have legislated stuff in baseball that we have caused.

Like you think about, we had to legislate. You can't shift because hitting two, strike hitting was never taught. And if you teach two strike [00:07:00] hitting, a guy sees a shift and he wants to get a hit and he knows how to two strike hit, he goes into it with strike one. And so that would stop a shift real quick.

You, for years they didn't want you trying to steal bases 'cause you don't run into outs. Then all of a sudden the game got boring. So he decided we gotta legislate that they're gonna run. Mm-hmm So the base got bigger. The pitchers are limited in what he can do to hold a runner. They want more, , they had to legislate that what they screwed up.

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: Maurey Wills didn't need any special thing to be able to steal basic will. I mean, because they were taught in the minor leagues and taught coming up,, how you steal bases that was lost because they didn't want people running, you know, Bunting, you can talk I know you don't give away outs, but if you're in a ninth inning and you're in a tie game and you're the home team and you lead off hitters on second base and like, [00:08:00] I see strikeouts all the time because strikeouts just another out, you know, get your a swing off.

Geez. Get the guy over. You know? And if you can't bunt and you can't bunt, they don't, nobody bunts in the minor league. So it might be coming back in some form, but, and I hope, you know, and, but yeah, is it boring? But you gotta make a play on it. And there's a lot of strategy involved there. But if you can win a game, , , there's a value to every win.

They can tell you how much it is. 

Mat Germain: Yeah, 

Larry Rothschild: there's a number, there's a Mon monetary number on wins that has been analyzed. 

Mat Germain: The problem is that they don't, they are, they haven't so far for a long time, paid the players who are in that mode. Mm-hmm. Like Ricky Anderson is a good example. Right. 25 years. He made 44 million.

You look at the competitors he was up against, who hit a lot of home runs, they got paid way more than Ricky did. Mm-hmm. They weren't as good a player as Ricky was. A lot of times, like nowhere near. Right. So, you know, if you [00:09:00] looked at the pro productivity of the players as a whole, especially defensively, offensively, et cetera, like the, the valuation of baseball needs to be redone a little bit.

Larry Rothschild: Yeah. Yeah. 

Mat Germain: If players get paid to steal bases, they will steal bases. 

Larry Rothschild: Yep. They'll learn how, and they'll want to be taught how, they've learned how to walk. 'cause they get paid to, you know, that's on base. , That's a big part of it. If you hit two 40 and walk enough, you're fine.

Batting average is not how you look at 'em. , Yeah, .256 a good year. Like for what? , If you can get a runner over you, it's gonna caught a caught it's gonna be against you because that's not a hard hit ball necessarily. You're going the other way. You're trying to put the ball and play with an easy swing and work the ball the other way to get the runner over if you're right.

Hand hundred guy second. Mm-hmm. So that, that ball not being hit hard works against you

Mat Germain: when we look at the Blue Jays last year Right. In the, in the World series. Mm-hmm. Thoughts on them because they kind of [00:10:00] brought back a lot of old school 

Larry Rothschild: mm-hmm. 

Mat Germain: To their lineup. 

Larry Rothschild: Yeah. And that's an interesting, you know, they were able to do that.

Um. It worked. So you may have some copycats now, right? If it works again this year, you definitely will have a lot of organizations doing that. But, , one and done may not. Um, yeah, yeah. But it's, it's just not that hard to teach bunting. Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was the easiest thing in the world to do, really.

If you watch a Greg Maddux, , it's incredible. You know, he knew. But all that is, is like wanting, if you want to get the ball down and you're bunning, you're gonna get the ball down, 

Mark Corbett: right? 

Larry Rothschild: I mean, you're professional hitter. You oughta be able to do that. And it's just catching the ball with the bat.

It's all, that's all it is. So, yeah. , I mean, but again, the in, they're not incentivized to do those things. Mm-hmm. You know, so it's just not happening and, . As a [00:11:00] result, everything's been legislated. , I don't know what's next, but, you legislate the pitch clock because we didn't teach pitchers how to pitch early, pitch quick, get the ball, get on the mound, throw strikes, first pitch strikes, change speeds.

But there's some years ago, I, there was a study that the hitter needed 16 seconds to understand what just happened to him. And so now you've legislated he's not getting that. So,, you've watched hitter struggle with the time clock. They don't get comfortable with it. 'cause in their mind they can't, they can't get that.

So, um, you know, they don't have the time 

Mat Germain: to bright. Is that what you're saying? 

Larry Rothschild: The, what 

Mat Germain: are you saying? Hitters aren't very bright. 

Larry Rothschild: No. Anybody ha takes that time. , The better hitters are smarter. I guess. I, 

Mat Germain: yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: You know, judge doesn't need the 16 seconds, so yeah, it's all interesting.

But I think the pitch clock has helped the pitchers and everybody thought it wouldn't, but it's helped them [00:12:00] more than the hitters. 

Mat Germain: Mm-hmm. 

Larry Rothschild: Um, because they're on top of the hitter all the time and anymore they don't have to think about. The only thing is when you're struggling, it was always good to get back off the mound and calm things down and calm yourself down.

But now you're just doing it mechanically, like you're just, , it's, anything you gotta do in a rush is just the thought process is so different. 

Mat Germain: Well, one thing that they have focused on a lot more than they're, you, they're used to, I, I guess you probably got some sort of support, but most of it probably came over beer, is the mental aspect of the game and like the being able to perform in the moment and to, , do exactly what it is you're supposed to do.

So they have mental coaches and the 

Larry Rothschild: mm-hmm. 

The 

Mat Germain: ways you said they're innovative. They kind of were one of the first teams to really have like a whole mental, , acuity aspect. Mm-hmm. To their, to their, 

Larry Rothschild: when I, when I managed the Rays, I had Harvey Dorfman there. I hired him, I made him hire him.

Nice. Because I had been with him with the [00:13:00] Marlins, and I saw what he could do. He was the head of all this. , He was in the forefront of it all. Wrote the books on it, the ABC's of pitching and really, really ahead of his time. And so I brought him, and I probably needed him more than the players did that first year.

But, , we didn't have time to get that program the way it should have been. And at that time, Harvey's wife had just gotten breast cancer, so he needed to spend more time at home. And, but the purpose of having him there was, um, for, you know, because that's when people started to understand, , and you look at the Olympics and, you look at the kid, the, the skater Malinin, who should have just crushed it, but.

In some aspect, he just wasn't ready for that. , And I know the Olympic, US Olympic team has a lot of help with that. So,, it doesn't always work. But, um, I, you know, I, I was big on, , being able to visualize and practice in the [00:14:00] visualization of, , seeing the good pitches and knowing where your arm is in space when the foot's coming down so that you could repeat that.

And when you needed to, you drew on it and you didn't need, when you got outta whack, if you stepped off and saw what you were gonna do, you didn't need three or four pitches to get back, , and I was really big on having one thing in your delivery that you knew if you got to that point, that you were gonna throw the ball the way you should.

And that way you could coach yourself and teach yourself. And we worked out that on the side a lot. Like what's the one thing everybody's different. Right. And I knew when I was pitching what it was, but somebody else is gonna have something different and , then you repeat so much that you pretty much know, but it takes a while.

All that stuff,, it's not an easy fix and the game's not easy., The other part of the game now is everybody knows everything that goes on in every city. Like you can be pitching, , in [00:15:00] a city that you got, everybody's got all the information and that's hard, , and you're really living under a scope and, you're under a magnifier and it's, that makes life a little bit harder.

Mat Germain: I think that's why it's good to be a little bit crazy. 'cause if you're unpredictable, like Yeah, Martinez was classic for that. You never knew where he go inside, outside, up, down, it didn't matter. Like he and Greg Maddux did the same, so mm-hmm. Being unpredictable for pitcher, I think that has a lot to do with, you know, the game.

Uh, and that's what hitters struggle with the most is if they don't predict what you're doing and they don't have the garbage cans and sticks to let everybody else know, um, then they, they as well. Right? 

Larry Rothschild: Yeah. Hitters get very uncomfortable 

Mat Germain: mm-hmm. 

Larry Rothschild: With the unknown. Like if a pitcher just drops a new pitch that nobody's heard about him, him having it.

Yeah. Guys will step out and shake their head like, what is going on? You know, because they weren't programmed for that. Right. They're almost like computers in today's world, it's [00:16:00] like, if the computer chip doesn't fit, it's not gonna be good, but you know, when it's good's real good, so. 

Mat Germain: Right.

It leads me to my next question, or it like, I know we've been, we've had you for a, uh, for a long time, so I don't wanna take too much time, but the ABS system is coming into play this year. Mm-hmm. So I, you know, remiss if I didn't bring it up because I've always been, uh, and somebody that wants to have it as soon as possible because I've seen young pitchers not get the credit from umpires mm-hmm.

That they earned. Right. And I want them to get a little bit, you know, of a smoother transition from minor league ball to pro ball. Mm-hmm. So what are your thoughts on the ABS as whole? 

Larry Rothschild: I think it's good, but I didn't, if you go back and the umpires were the way they were where you got to know 'em all and they knew the veterans and you had to earn your way as a, like, I remember I was in spring training and I came in a game and I faced [00:17:00] Yastremski and I swear I threw 'em six strikes and walked them.

I swear to God, they were all right down the middle. And you know, I, I got off the mound, I said, you gotta earn your way. I mean, you knew that. You just knew it. So, but that's when the umpires had personality and you knew, like, they weren't afraid to tell you , Hey, you know, your day will come, but you're gonna have to earn it.

And you know what? There's something to that, ? , Now it's, the umpires don't have that. They're not that way anymore. They're not, they don't have that personality. , And now everybody sees every pitch and, you know, you always have the, the strike zone on the screen or whatever, and after the game, you know, with what an umpire did.

Exactly. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: So I think, yeah, there's a, I, today I would be in favor of it, but if you look, the umpires were characters of the game. And if you take that, you took that out. You lost a character. Now that's no longer the case at all. So, [00:18:00] yeah, I think, I think it's, it's time. I know you can, , , question it because I, what I heard is like breaking balls out of the crosses zone and then drop out.

It's, it's a tough read on, 

Mat Germain: right. 

Larry Rothschild: Um, but. It's probably better than the umpires, honestly. I hate to say that, but 

Mat Germain: especially at the speed that they're working at now. 

Mark Corbett: It, it almost has to be, 'cause you, you're standing behind somebody all the time anyway, trying to see the entire game. And I gotta, I gotta bounce off of this one thing 'cause I've been wanting to ask it too about the ABS, but my question was going to be, how many less ejections are we going to see this year than we did last year?

And you, you won't have a reason for Billy Martin to go out there and stop and kick up dirt. You, you know, how many times, well, is it a disagreement with the umpire when we have a manager going out there and give it a fit in trying to get something to say, Hey, you need to sharpen up, but now that's another [00:19:00] part of the color of the game that's, that's going to just fade away.

Larry Rothschild: Well, it would've kept me in more games. I can tell you that much. It's, I mean, I would, I would go out there and, , wait for the umpire and, I wouldn't look at 'em, but I'd look at the pitcher. And be chewing the umpire out. And you knew when you got to that point that, it was, you were gonna go if you didn't shut up.

So, and then, , walking back, sometimes you could get another little word in because of distance and they don't like to throw you off from that, you know, necessarily. But, , when they get to that point, you're done. So I remember, um, this wasn't balls and strikes, but I had a hard time with one particular umpire and he'd thrown me out.

He threw me out the first time I ever got thrown out. And as an expansion team, the umpiring was different. I, I brought the line up out the first day and I forgot who it was. Uh, Joe West was behind the plate. 

Mark Corbett: Oh God. 

Larry Rothschild: And I [00:20:00] give him the lineup. Now. We had Boggs and McGriff. Wilson Álvarez was starting a game.

Flaherty was catching. They had played, you know. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: So I give 'em the lineup card and doesn't look at it. He goes, I don't know any of these players. Just because we're an expansion team. And I said, Joe, you might wanna look at that card. 'cause I think you might have heard of Wade Boggs and you might have heard of Fred McGriff.

What 

Mat Germain: the, 

Larry Rothschild: you might have heard of Wilson Álvarez 

Mat Germain: this to the umpire. 

Larry Rothschild: And that was my aha moment where I said, we are screwed all year. 

 so just a quick story, you know, at that time the rings were big, and nobody knew what to do with 'em, , and so the, and the umpires hated it.

Like they hated it. And I would, I had pitchers in their locker room, I had worded descriptions of all the ground rules pertaining to the rings. 'cause every game you'd have to go to [00:21:00] home plate and go over the rings go. And this is, you know, late in the year, they'd still be asking me. And I'd go, look, I have all this stuff in, just read it.

Just look at it. If you can't read, I've got pitchers. I mean, so anyway, I go one day, I'm just fed up with, I, I don't think it was Joe West, but it was a veteran umpire behind a plate. And he goes, Larry, would you go over the ground rules? And I said, yeah, sure. I said, you see that first ring? You see that ladder?

I said, if a ball hits up in that first ring, you gotta stop the base runner. And the fielder climbs up and when he touches the ball, the runner can start again. And they looked at me like, I mean, they didn't know if I was serious, if I, and I looked and I said, look, I've given you these ground rules all year and I'm tired of coming to home plate.

And the fourth game was a series and doing it again. And you know that's not true, I hope. But you look at me and I'm wondering like, are we gonna do this [00:22:00] tonight? 

Mat Germain: Really should be the other way around. Like the umpire should be telling the opponent manager, 

Larry Rothschild: right, 

Mat Germain: how they're going to treat the rings.

Right. Right. 'cause they're supposed to the groove, 

Larry Rothschild: I think, you know, you're gonna have that again this year because they didn't play in there last year. That's right. But the first year and even the first or second year, it was like those rings were gonna come down and suck them up to a different planet and , , I mean, honest to God it was, there was a fear factor with that whole thing that was unbelievable.

And I, you know, I get it. I mean, the one day Big Hurt from the White Sox hit that ball that would've gone through the roof and it hit the second ring, which was a double thing. And they ended up calling a home run. And I could have protested the game 'cause it wasn't a rule. And I, there's like, what am I gonna do?

That ball was hit so hard, you know? So, and I went and argued and it was like, Larry, I said, I know, but that's not the [00:23:00] rule. 

Mat Germain: Mm-hmm. 

Larry Rothschild: You know, and they said, well, I said, I, I, yeah, I get it, but I just gotta do this, 

Mat Germain: what are your thoughts on the new Ray stadium and where they're gonna build it?

Supposedly, where they're looking at, and are you going to go when they open it? Is that, uh, on your, on your list of things to 

Larry Rothschild: do? If I get asked, I'll go, yeah, I'm, I mean, you're talking, it's gonna take three years, right? 

Mat Germain: Mm-hmm. 

Larry Rothschild: , I don't know what's gonna, I have no idea. I know they've talked about HCC and Ybor and, , I'm afraid if something doesn't happen, then they're gonna talk about moving it to Orlando or whatever.

Which would be a fear of mine. And I don't know how interested in tax, the tax situation for a new stadium to get it built when I know the Bucks are looking to redo their stadium and, uh, put some money in that. So you've got a lot of tugs,, a lot of, , pulling for the funds there and, and there's other things, that people are [00:24:00] interested in.

So I think it, I don't know. I mean, I really don't know. I hope it stays in Tampa, you know. Um, his 

Mat Germain: favorite subject is the stadium. He, he loves to talk about it over and over. 

Larry Rothschild: Who's that? 

Mat Germain: Mark. Mark. 

Larry Rothschild: Oh, yeah. Well, it is a thing. I mean, to get baseball there and then if you have it taken away, that's, but you've gotta, you've gotta have fans coming to the game.

And I know they have a great audience through TV and radio, , which is normal. But, um, I, the one thing with the stadium that I. Years ago, you might, you'll remember this, but they were gonna go to, uh, Al Lang and put parachutes, like if it rained like an umbrella. And I looked at that and I looked at my wife and I said, I guess we never have any wind here that would blow those parachutes, like the, um, umbrella.

It would blow it all the way to Orlando and the roof in the stadium. I [00:25:00] even when I was managing like, like the third year, we had a game where there were 50 mile an hour winds at the beginning of the game. And I'm looking at the roof and I'm going, it's kind of swaying, which I think it was built to do.

But if you're sitting in the dugout looking at it, you're going, what the hell? So I called this Rick Naif down and I said, Hey Rick, when aren't we safe? And he said, well, it's supposed to be good for over a hundred miles an hour. I said, I don't, I'm not interested in supposed to be good. When are we not safe anymore?

Because I'll gotta get these players off the field. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: And you better get people out of here. And he said, I said, look, if it gets to 75 or 80, come down here and I'll stop the game. I said, we can't, this is a tragedy waiting to happen. And it, it calmed down after that. So it was fine. But even then, so when the hurricane hit, my wife and I were down here where we were in New York, but we had the news station on, [00:26:00] and I see all the setup for the workers in the Trop and I'm going, they can't put 'em in there.

That roof is coming off. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: And I, honest to God, I thought like I was an Nostradumus or something. 'cause two days later the roof blows off and nobody wanted that. I mean that, that was so bad. Uh, you know, it just, I think it changed a lot of dynamics there too. 

Mat Germain: Oh yeah. It, it might've saved them from making a mistake, I think, in St.

Petersburg, to be honest. 

Larry Rothschild: Yeah. It might've 

Mat Germain: putting a similar stadium in the same area that didn't work the first time. 

Larry Rothschild: Right, right. 

Mat Germain: I think it kind of,, it might be a bit a blessing in disguise. Um, well, it'll 

Larry Rothschild: be interesting to see if, you know, hopefully it's built in Tampa, 

Mat Germain: right. 

Larry Rothschild: And how well it does.

, I think Tampa's grown so much. I mean, it's incredible. Just in the years we're down there, , the growth is exponential and it's incredible. So, you know, you've now got a, a pretty viable situation. [00:27:00] 

Mark Corbett: I think the governor just gave 22 acres to Zalupski in the group around HCC, uh, HCC. So I'll be curious to see how, how that plays out.

'cause you still have to get the city and 

Larry Rothschild: Yeah. 

Mark Corbett: County to come up with money. 22 acres is nice. 

Larry Rothschild: You wanna know my cynical side? 

Mark Corbett: Oh, please share. 

Larry Rothschild: I wonder who knows about that beforehand and bought the land as much as they could around there. 

Mark Corbett: Um, 

Larry Rothschild: just the world we're in right now, so, 

Mark Corbett: no, no, I I I have no doubt there's, there's always some machinations.

I, I'll tell you one real quick. Years ago when I lived in Louisville, Kentucky, there was a Commis, a commissioner, county commissioner, and that is exactly what he did. And he was on a committee that was looking at development and he was going out and buying the pieces, but it was, it was not very secretive.

And 

Larry Rothschild: yeah, 

Mark Corbett: uh, they're, they're a little better at these days. 

Larry Rothschild: I, I know that, uh, years ago, a lot of pe because I knew some of 'em, [00:28:00] bought some of the property in different areas thinking, , they didn't know anything but. They were predicting and , they had people that they thought they didn't work 'cause they bought land in places where it's not gonna be built.

Mark Corbett: Wow. 

Larry Rothschild: But I Ybor the way it's come back and stuff, but I don't know if you've got the property there. 

Mark Corbett: Right. 

Larry Rothschild: I mean, you know, the last thing, not the last thing. I'll go as long as you want, but whatever. They built a stadium somehow. There's a couple of names that need to be attached to that stadium. 

Mat Germain: Mm-hmm.

Larry Rothschild: And uh, Al Lopez would be one of 'em. And Lou Piniella would be one of 'em. Somehow those names and Lopez especially. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: There, he's the, it has to happen. I mean, the city of Tampa has not advertised his name the way it should be. Not advertised, but just had the respect for what he did. 

Mark Corbett: Mm-hmm. 

Larry Rothschild: And what he was in baseball.

I mean, [00:29:00] it, it's an incredible career. And that museum, I think I love that museum. I think it's great. And in his old house. And 

Mark Corbett: yeah, 

Larry Rothschild: I think it's, I, you know, I mean, I wanted to help them any way I could because I think it's a great thing and it's a really cool place to go. I've told everybody going down there for Spring Training, you gotta go there.

It's an hour, but it's a really well invested hour and it's a pretty cool place to go. So, but anyway, I think Al Lopez's name and Lou Piniella's really should be 

Mark Corbett: Oh yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: , Somehow, whether you name the locker room after him, but the stadium should have Al Lopez's name on it, and I would hope that somehow, you know, if I can get to some of these people, I do it, but I probably don't know them 

Mat Germain: there.

There's always an opportunity, right. I, I think there's a lot of franchises that are just starting to realize the, the importance of those kinds of things. Mm-hmm. Come to mind. They just started putting some statues in and around, uh 

Larry Rothschild: mm-hmm. [00:30:00] 

Mat Germain: Roger Center, which they refurbished. So, uh, I, I think Evan Longoria is another one that I would throw in there.

Mm-hmm. Where he was the first player, like other than Wade Boggs and, and the ones that did come over for the first year, like he was the first one, commit to the area and say, you know what, like I find here long term, every time that he did it twice, uh, where he signed extensions, you know, early on and really team friendly.

So 

Larry Rothschild: yeah, he would, he is. And you know, statues of those guys. Yeah. And Lopez definitely. And Lou definitely, McGriff, I guess he's a Hall of Famer and he is from Tampa. So, you know, those things are important to the history of baseball, but none more important than Al Lopez and I, if you ask people in their twenties, they probably don't even know who he is, you know?

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: Which is, to me, criminal. But that's, that's just. What it is. So, and hopefully we have baseball next year and, , all this gets settled and all that, so there's a lot. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah, we [00:31:00] we're, we're, we got, we got a new, uh, new guy with running the M-L-B-P-A. Mm-hmm. Mr. Bruce Meyer. And, but we know he was already a bulldog in some ways negotiating with the Major League baseball.

So we're hoping that's gonna be good. And what you're saying, well, go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. 

Larry Rothschild: The history of the M-L-B-P-A before, uh, before all this happened, the first, all the lawyers that were associated starting at the beginning 

Mark Corbett: Yes, sir. 

Larry Rothschild: Were all, they were all lawyers from the garment district here, and they got, they were from the school of hard knocks and they knew how to negotiate.

Mark Corbett: Yep. 

Larry Rothschild: The players association never lost an anything in a negotiation for 50 years. 50. And the only player they had. Was the last situation so it didn't go too well. And now 10 months to go and you're trying to regroup. And I think he's had a [00:32:00] profound effect on the players association and not in a good way, the way, the way this trans transpired.

Really? 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: So, um, I don't know, but you know, hopefully, uh, people in their right minds understand the game is thriving right now and both sides are doing very well, which it has for quite a while. And that's why the agreements have been able to be reached. But if you draw a hard line just to draw it, you're gonna have problems.

Mat Germain: Yeah, I agree. 

Larry Rothschild: And I've been on the player's side 'cause they were, the players association was so good to me and my family. I just, I. That's where my support is and that's where my belief is. And you know, I, I won't get into the owner side. I'm not going there right now. Sit though. 

Mark Corbett: Probably a good call. 

Larry Rothschild: Yeah, 

Mark Corbett: no, no.

But I mean, we, we all got our feelings about that. But I, I wanna thank you, Larry. Um, [00:33:00] you've brought so much to the game and you continue to, and I, I don't wanna close this if you wanna talk about more, but I, I want to at least at some point, thank you for all that. 'cause I'm a big fan of everything you've done with the game, the, the spirit of the game and see the value of still promoting the history of the game.

Because if we're gonna keep young people involved, we've gotta let them know the beauty of what's been there before and the heroes that have brought it to us today. 

Larry Rothschild: Yeah. , My son is now 27, but. I wanted him to have the same experiences I had. I, he didn't have to love the game or the way I did or play it, or I just wanted him to have that experience, even if it was in another sport.

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: You know, just to have that kind of experience. It happened to be baseball for me. If it wasn't a sport or it was music or whatever, that's fine too. Just have a passion for something that you'll carry in your whole life, you know? And I think that's where the game for so many people and [00:34:00] that I'm just gonna throw this out there and it, so we've cut down to minor leagues, right?

Mark Corbett: Yeah, yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: And you're gonna cut 'em down more and they want to get eventually to where it's like the NFL where college feeds. So here's my problem with it. Baseball is rooted in small rural towns in America. 

Mark Corbett: Yes. 

Larry Rothschild: You kick those teams away, people will find other things to do. It hasn't been long enough for that effect to have carried the major leagues, but they better be very careful about what's going on.

I mean, there's still baseball, , independent leagues or whatever in these towns, but these aren't players that they can say, I'm gonna follow this. , He's gonna go to the major leagues. And then, , a kid grows up and he lives in New York. And so he is a baseball fan. We've created, that's how we've created baseball fans, scouts that drove thousands and thousands of miles.

Were in these towns living and doing camps and, and [00:35:00] knowing every high school coach. And that's where the, the history of baseball is. It's, , and it's also in everything else, , with the players and everything. But that's where the real history of baseball is. 

Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

Larry Rothschild: We're gonna lose that. And that's what, when we started cutting the minor league towns, I know we're trying to save money and that, and travel and, uh.

You're gonna lose, you're gonna lose something that's really important to the game. 

Mat Germain: Yeah. Here's the way that I see it. 'cause I'm actually like, I'm, mark can speak to this. I'm, I'm very much into the minor leagues. Like, I watch it 

Larry Rothschild: mm-hmm. 

Mat Germain: Constantly. And I, I do dynasty leagues where we know way too many minor leaguers and I, I pay attention to them.

All 

Larry Rothschild: right. So 

Mat Germain: my, my thing with the minor leagues is that they should merge with colleges and that the colleges should be offering more full scholarships to baseball players. And that's the way it should go because it's easier to market. Um, college games. You see the crowds, they're full because now 

Larry Rothschild: it's, [00:36:00] it's getting popular.

Yeah. 

Mat Germain: Support them. Whereas when you're an affiliate, you're, you're sort of, not really, first of all, you don't know how many years it's gonna take for that player to reach. Uh, secondly, you know, they'll get traded, some of them fall off, et cetera. So there's no attachment. There's no. Not the same kind of attachment, I would say, I shouldn't say none.

Some teams do a really good job. They have a long history and, and it's been part of that core of that community, but it's getting harder and harder to build that and to sustain it. So I think the way to do it, because you can monetize the college game through TV deals, through all the stuff that you're talking about with gambling and everything else, and NCAA having what they have and, and so you can have the quicker transition that you're talking about where double a, triple A is all you need then for minor leagues, because you're just transitioning them from the college game to the majors.

And in that case, in a way, you can keep the same number of teams. It's just that their association, [00:37:00] it differs and you're giving them an education at the same time. 

Larry Rothschild: You're gonna have to really expand on the colleges though, to, to be able to have that system. And also are they gonna accept that's, you know, as the ncaa, you're gonna have to make a pretty good deal with them.

And also then you've got the Latin American players 

Mat Germain: that's, 

Larry Rothschild: you know, that aren't gonna go to a college and , they're getting their education, , as they're coming around, you know, through baseball, they're learning English and things like that. So you kind of have to keep the developmental phase,, in Florida or in Arizona where , they can, , go through the educational process, the adoption, adoption process and all that.

And then, , you've got an influx of Japanese players and so there's a whole litany of things, but. You know, it's, it's not a bad idea. It's a really good idea. , I know, , when you, when I used to travel through the Meyer Leagues and see, , the, what the Scouts put in and, you know, just mm-hmm.

The love of the game for the fans there. And I know they taught their kids and they [00:38:00] brought kids to the game and, you know, and I, I actually did something in a, with a independent team in Chicago. You know, I was, uh, just, I did five days a month to help out. Bobby Jenks happened to be the manager of the team, , two years ago.

And you know what, it was kind of fun. The conditions were people would've, you know, but it was really kind of fun to, to do that and see the, and actually we had five of the pitchers sign into. To go play, , organizational baseball and a couple of 'em double A and triple A. So, uh, it was a good situation.

It was fun, but, , it was fun to do that. And it was in my old neighborhood where I grew up in Chicago. It was like five miles from there, so that's why I did it. Uh, my son was still in Chicago and now he's in London. , But it, it was really fun to do and just the fans there were just different, you know, it was, and they actually knew their game and, you know, they were all White Sox fans 'cause it was on the south side [00:39:00] because, um, but it was a lot of fun.

And I really, I don't know. I mean, if you, you gotta keep the fan base, the very beginning of the fan base somehow. And college towns would work. I mean, why not? I mean, I went back to Florida State for a reunion last year, and the fans are from when I played there, which we had, we were number one in the nation my last year.

And, you know, the fans were crazy. 

Mat Germain: Yeah, they really 

Larry Rothschild: are. But now they've got like, I mean, it's, I it was like a nice minor league ballpark and a league ballpark now. So, 

Mat Germain: so the average, um, college game, uh, attendance size is somewhere around five to 6,000 depending on, you know 

Larry Rothschild: mm-hmm. 

Mat Germain: Doing all of them as a whole.

Right. And who, and top ones would have way more, bottom ones, way less, but in the minor leagues and a ball and, and, and a plus, especially the average is about, it's gone down now to about [00:40:00] 3,500 on, 

Larry Rothschild: yeah. 

Mat Germain: And it keeps dropping about two to 3% every year. So at a certain point you're, you're kind of like, you know, monetary that as an affiliate is getting harder as well, 

Larry Rothschild: right?

You, you've got the Florida State League average in there, which draws 10 fans game. I mean, , that's, that's gonna skew that a little bit. But,, yeah, it makes sense. I think it's a good idea. But, and then, , when you relegate teams, you can send 'em to college.

Mat Germain: I like your, your idea there. 

Mark Corbett: I like that. All right. Well, Larry, again, I can't thank you enough for being on the show, brother. It's been a joy and a pleasure, and sharing some great ideas and history of the game. Uh, I, I'm sorry, you're, mark, 

Larry Rothschild: you can cut this down any way you want to. Don't 

Mark Corbett: worry about No, no, it's all great.

I just wanna be able to actually, you know, let you get outta the room after having you here for an hour and a half. No, that's great. I didn't want you to feel like you were shackled to the floor or anything with all this. 

Larry Rothschild: No, because 

Mark Corbett: [00:41:00] I, 

Larry Rothschild: no, it's been great being able to talk baseball, so, 

Mark Corbett: no, I, I, it's 

Larry Rothschild: all of it's been, man.

It's nice to meet you, mark. It was great to meet you. And , hopefully, uh, there's a team in Tampa for a long time. 

Mat Germain: I agree. 

Mark Corbett: Well, thank you Larry. I appreciate a great deal, brother. We, we appreciate all you've done. 

Larry Rothschild: Anytime. Thank you very much. 

Mark Corbett: Take care sir. 

Larry Rothschild: You guys take care. 

Mark Corbett: Alright, bye-bye. That was fantastic.