Bullying increasing in Women's Sports discussion with 4 USAWNT Baseball Champions

Bullying Girls in Baseball

[00:00:00] Mark Corbett: If the Olympics offered women's baseball as a sport, the USA Women's National Team would be that team. Our four guests today all are gold medal winners. They're champions. There's leaders who have played, coach, and are managed the USA Women's National Baseball Team. They all continue to build the game of baseball for women as they mentor young girls and women through programs like the MLB develops, trailblazers, EDI, and breakthrough.

[00:00:26] Common threads you're gonna find amongst all these folks is the love of the game and how much they wanna share it with young folks coming up into it. Amidst all of that, there are still challenges on field and off field. And one of those today we're gonna be discussing that's, uh, not a pleasant one, it's bullying.

[00:00:46] we'll talk about bullying and you know what, some of those issues I. And basically the, the four great people are gonna be here today. Veronica Alvarez, manager of the USA Women's National Team. Also the girls' baseball ambassador for Major League [00:01:00] baseball. Firefighter medic.

[00:01:01] I love that. And coach for the as. Uh, Tamara Tamara Holmes played with the Women's Colorado Bullets. Woof. I love that team. I love the history there. One of the coaches also I believe, with MLB, develops a firefighter in Oakland and has been a business owner I know with a CrossFit business as well,

[00:01:19] Alex Oglesby, assistant coach for the USA Women's National Team. In 2004, you were on the, uh, inaugural team with won the gold in the first Women's World Cup of baseball, and now is president of Evolutions of Girls baseball and co-managing the 18 and uh, above what and under National team. And lastly.

[00:01:37] Malaika Underwood. Thank you Malaika as well. I'm outstanding player with USA Women's National Team since 2006. Assistant coach on the USA Women's National Team in 2023 and 2024. And this year Malaika was hired as executive director of the Professional Women's Hockey League Players Association. And part of that job is tasked with protecting players' rights as well.

[00:01:59] So, [00:02:00] all right, now that I've said all that, welcome to all of you. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Thank 

[00:02:06] you. Yeah. 

[00:02:08] Mark Corbett: Veronica, since you're the manager of the team, you wanna start off this conversation? 

[00:02:12] Veronica Alvarez: Oh boy. Okay. 

[00:02:15] Mark Corbett: So bullying. , It's something that's can't seem to get away from, and I know that probably each one of you have had your own experiences with it.

[00:02:23] And then also your conversations with the young ladies on your team. 

[00:02:26] Tamara Holmes: Yeah, so I I think I should start in that I had called , this group together, so good Tamara, , Alex and I and, uh, Meggie Meidlinger, who's not on the call. Uh, we're part of the Trailblazers this year. And, , I, we had some groups, talking groups with the players.

[00:02:46] We were getting

[00:02:47] , a common theme of players coming to us and saying that, Hey, they've been getting bullied or pushed off teams. And we were trying to figure out why. Like, this obviously is not something new to [00:03:00] us or an issue, , it just seems like it's gotten worse and in some cases there's been like physical harm or dangers there.

[00:03:09] And it just seems like the, the climate is worse, but I realize that's probably also a conversation of, uh, like little league baseball and youth baseball in general.

[00:03:24] Malaika Underwood: One thing, I bring up and I, you know, when Holmesy said to me that she felt like the climate was getting worse, it made me start to think about, , my own experience. And, , I grew up in San Diego. I was the first girl to play high school baseball, , back in the mid nineties. This was when Holmesy was playing for , the Silver Bullets.

[00:03:47] Um, not to age her or anything, um, but, I, I remember that the, the players on the team were often not the problem. 

[00:03:58] Yeah, 

[00:03:59] Malaika Underwood: it was the [00:04:00] parents in the stands. And often the other team's parents that were, I don't know, threatened maybe by, by the situation and not so much parents on the team I played on, but, but occasionally, you know, a kid might not make the team and the parent would be upset.

[00:04:16] And, and you could, , you'd hear, comments. And so what I started to think is that this is learned behavior. You know, that the kids on , the field, if you're good enough, they're happy to have you there. , They're not, they, they're not worried about whether you're a girl or not. If, you're performing, if you're getting hits, if you're making plays on the field, they'll be a great teammate to you.

[00:04:37] , But it's the parents and whatever expectations that they have around the sport, I. Whatever they have around their, their own kids', uh, performance that really leads to, to the problem. And I, I imagine , that continues. My, my kids aren't yet young enough to be playing competitive, , sports.

[00:04:54] , But , or not yet old enough, sorry to, to be playing competitive sports, but I. I, I still get [00:05:00] that vibe, , with other, other friends and, , folks who are participating in youth sports these days, that it's the parents man and that, and that's, that's disappointing because they should know better.

[00:05:12] Veronica Alvarez: Yeah. Really, to me, when I hear that, especially when moms in the baseball space, um, are the ones talking poorly about the girls that are on the, on their son's teams, it's like such a missed opportunity to set the tone for. You know, gender equality, why are you already, you starting the conversation that girls are lesser than, and you're doing that by the way you speak about them, by the way, you're reacting to their presence in the field and things like that.

[00:05:38] And it's such a shame that they would do that, um, to a girl. , And not set their boys up for success and for, future greatness of being great treaters of women, and you see it all the time. I, I also think it's a parent thing and it's definitely a learned behavior. Um, and that to me is a big shame.

[00:05:56] But I would also add that to Holmes's statement. I think it seems [00:06:00] worse now too because of social media. And that's always a conversation, you know, is social media. But, uh, I think the, the feedback that we get a lot of the girls from Trailblazer series and through the MLB develops events is that when they get the recognition from their local news station or, , news, , like art, , journalists or whatnot, um, about them participating in one of those events.

[00:06:23] That amplifies the bullying, , that they start to receive. And so that's unfortunate, right? And that comes from jealousy and whatever they wanna do. But again, I think it all stems back to the household and what the parents are, are setting up their boys to do. 

[00:06:39] Mark Corbett: Well, pardon me, that was, uh, first we heard from Tamara, that was Malaika and that was Veronica.

[00:06:45] I, I, I'm gonna ask you, sorry, I should have introduced each one of you as begin to speak or ask you to introduce yourself. Um, sorry for the interruption. Go, go ahead. My apologies if you, if you would just continue, I should leave you. 

[00:06:58] Malaika Underwood: Your, your guests aren't [00:07:00] gonna recognize our voices. Mark, 

[00:07:02] Mark Corbett: can you believe it?

[00:07:03] Wait, can 

[00:07:04] Tamara Holmes: I backtrack for a second too? I just realized I totally like left Veronica out of like being at Trailblazers too. Like something felt weird and I'm like, wait a minute, you were there too. Um. You know, not to the, you know, get us too far off topic,

[00:07:21] in the, in the mom brain there, but, um. And I think Malaika's, right? It used to be, or it felt like to all of us, like you, when you were the only girl on the team, or only woman on the team, or coming into a situation, uh, it's awkward at first, but kind of once you've proven yourself, then , the players, they do get over it right.

[00:07:38] To, and, , at least , they're, they're not outwardly showing it, but I would like to say that most get over it and then it, it's about playing and what I feel like is this uptick of. You know, one of the worst stories I heard, , was short of some of the ones that may have involved, like probably some physical violence is, uh, or altercation, I should say, is, uh, a, a girl had played on her team for a [00:08:00] couple years and was obviously one of the top players and had the coaches support and was enough to start.

[00:08:06] But then over a couple of seasons, the, you know. Parents start chirping, and I believe these are like, uh, Alex said also, you know, mainly women, then why is she playing over my kid? And now you have these eight to 12 year olds where their parents are hinging their MLB hopes on these little kids and then taking this narrative home.

[00:08:29] And now the kids are coming back and being increasingly rude or bullying to their, their what was previously their teammates. 

[00:08:39] Mark Corbett: Wow. . That, that's the one thing I wonder about bullying. I know you were talking about once they've been elevated, you know, they go back home and it's like, it's not hell.

[00:08:47] The conquering hero, it's like, oh, you think you're hot stuff? And, uh, they treated it like that and they're, they're kind of ostracized, I would guess. And, but that's, and it's, it's gotta be [00:09:00] challenging when you're not able to be with that player. Consistently, I mean, throughout the entire year, you know, they're, you're not on a team with them, uh, six months or whatever, I guess.

[00:09:12] 'cause I'm thinking a lot of, a lot of the different, uh, programs are there. They're there with you for a weekend or maybe a week, and what happens after that? Is there any communication with those, uh, players outside of the, uh, programs? 

[00:09:28] Veronica Alvarez: On on, sorry, Alex, on the side. Um, we only get them, you know, for the three events throughout the year and, and some of them might only be at one event.

[00:09:37] , So I think we, we all do our best and I think we do a good job of the time we have with them of . Empowering them and making them feel seen and heard, and, uh, that there's a future and that we've all kind of overcome these things. Um, so we're trying to fill the void of us not always being present at these events.

[00:09:56] And we like do a deep dive of it, but it's not enough. Right. And then they [00:10:00] go off and, and they're all by themselves or, or they're with unsupportive, um, teams or coaches or whatnot. So it's difficult. 

[00:10:09] Alex Oglesby: Yeah. I think, . Because of my work on the youth side, I am sometimes in touch with these players more throughout the year than just within the couple events with MLB.

[00:10:19] , And it's either their parents might reach out or they have a, , a different, , door open with all of us because we've met them at these events. We try to encourage them to make friendships and, and use us as resources throughout their time when they're not with us, but, What's hard, I think it on the coaching side is it's not like , we're their local coach where we can say, Hey, we'll be at your game.

[00:10:41] We're gonna be there to support you. Well, let me talk to your coach and, um, you know, vouch for you as a player or, you know, do anything to show them. I. Actual physical support within their local teams or communities, , that could help them along the way. Right? We can't lay any groundwork for them locally.

[00:10:59] [00:11:00] So we try to do, like Veronica says, we try to do our best with the time that we're given with them and try to en encourage them to make them most of their time when they're there. By that we mean make friends with the girls that are there, who are maybe across the country, but going through the same things as they are so that they can use them as, um.

[00:11:19] Sounding boards and and friendships that are people who are going through the same thing at the same time as them. So it is constricting as coaches who wanna help and wanna move the needle with these girls and help them through their journeys to not be able to be there. But we try to do our best to give them the strength while they're with us to take back home with them.

[00:11:39] Mark Corbett: I think you're probably doing a fantastic job with that. There's no doubt that you're doing a fantastic job with that. But the thing of it is, is that I, I like the idea of what you're saying is that those youngsters can, you know, still stay in touch with one aanother and social media is probably a, a, a place we're able to do that, stay and support one aanother there as well.

[00:11:59] So I'm [00:12:00] glad there's that. 'cause I know social media can go two ways, but, uh, I am, I'm glad to hear that's, that's a, a prospect or a good way of seeing it. Positive moves for them. 

[00:12:12] Veronica Alvarez: Yeah, and it's, I mean, it doesn't even go away either, which is the hard part of this conversation. And like what we do is like, you know, players like Whitmore and Olivia Pichardo that have experienced, um, higher stages of baseball, I.

[00:12:26] And a lot more attention than the young girls at Trailblazer series. Uh, they, it's still hard for them to see the commonality in their experience or even like their com. The commonality in the experience that I've had within professional baseball, like it's hard for them to see that other people's are experiencing it.

[00:12:43] I've had this conversation with Whitmore and Olivia separately, and it was both like mind blowing to them of like, oh, I didn't even consider these things that, like Whitmore had the same experience as me, or. Or you had a similar experience. So, um, even as very smart and, and developed women, it's a hard [00:13:00] experience for them to go through, um, of being the only one.

[00:13:04] And then the attention and what the attention brings from the naysayers and all those things. So, uh, but as the goal, right? And as all of us, we get stronger as we experience it. So they're definitely stronger because of it. But it sucks to, to get strong like that. 

[00:13:19] Malaika Underwood: When people have to understand that, um, these girls and women don't necessarily want to be the first or the only, it's their, it's just the reality that if they wanna play baseball, they have to be the first and the only often.

[00:13:35] They want opportunities to play this sport. And if we can create those opportunities, if we can, if we can create, um, opportunities past the youth level that are, , competitive for girls at the high school level, the collegiate level, and the professional level, that's where they're gonna go. And you've seen that in other sports.

[00:13:54] And so this idea that, that these girls and women are a threat to, to these boys or men's careers is [00:14:00] just so, so, so ridiculous. 'cause they have the same dream. Literally the same dream, which is to play baseball. It's that simple. It is that simple 

[00:14:09] Alex Oglesby: really is. I mean, it's interesting too, to see at the lower levels, you know, you have so many girls playing little League baseball, let's say, right?

[00:14:18] They're a young age. They come out. You can play well, at least. Here where I live, you can play little league before you can actually play softball. At a younger age, they can start little league. So a lot of the girls will start with Little League and some of them continue, but you get the message right away that, especially if you're a good ball player, hey, you've got more opportunities in softball.

[00:14:37] You should go play softball. And the coaches, the parents, you know, why are you here? Go play softball is the message to them. And so these boys are witnessing that same message. It's just. Integrated from day one into the message that they're hearing this all the way through. So when they do come across a girl in high school or upper levels college, um, [00:15:00] that's what they immediately just think, well go play softball.

[00:15:03] You have softball. We have baseball, you have softball, you don't belong here, and, and not recognizing the differences of the sports. And so that message, unfortunately is just carried across and, and I think that's part of where it stems from. Again, going back to what we touched on earlier, that at home with the coaches, all of those messages they're hearing from adults.

[00:15:24] They're not making up these messages on their own, they're hearing it from adults and pretty much all they're playing life. 

[00:15:31] Tamara Holmes: Yeah. I think, like Malaika said too, if we don't start creating our pipeline for the, the the middle part, you're gonna start losing people because I. When people ask you why, well, why not just go, it's easier.

[00:15:47] Why? Why deal with this? Right? So we're talking about support groups, like what are support groups usually for, right? I mean, it's not like a hiking group. Support groups are usually like, Hey, hey, hey, I wanna stop drinking or I wanna start, stop [00:16:00] hitting people, right? So like you have this support group with girls in baseball and you're like, yeah, like I love baseball, but doesn't this suck?

[00:16:07] Yeah, this sucks too. Right? So it's like. Then what are we doing? And I, and I don't wanna lose girls that wanna play baseball, why do we play? Because it's a different sport as opposed to softball. Softball is not that Softball isn't great, right? But then , we have to start asking these questions like, where's this gonna go?

[00:16:25] Why do people wanna put up with this? And now, like with softball being, you know, there, there's a pro league and, and NIL deals for all kinds of things for people now, right? So I feel like you're gonna start losing. Girls that wanna play this great sport and they're just getting punched and kicked on the way out.

[00:16:44] Veronica Alvarez: Yeah. I think Malaika's Point, and Holmesy touched on it a little bit, but at the last screening of See Her Be Her that I was at, somebody asked, um, um, why it was a simple question of like, what's the goal here? Why are, are the girls and the [00:17:00] women trying to be the first major League baseball player? Right.

[00:17:03] And I think there's a lot of mis perception in that situation. And they think that all these women, wi Whitmore being the at the forefront of that are trying to be the first to play Major League baseball. And, and I'm not gonna say she's not, but that's because it's the only opportunity if we provided Whitmore.

[00:17:20] An opportunity to play professional baseball with women, she would've easily taken that track. Right, right. And so it's not that she's trying to take the sport or that, not just her, all of these women, all of us, we're not trying to invade the male space. We just want to be playing baseball and playing with the boys is the.

[00:17:39] Really only option at, at most places. So, that's one misconception that we need to work through.

[00:17:46] , These girls just want to play baseball. If they had the option to play with girls, I assure you that's easier. And as far as fitting in and socially and all the things and not being bullied. They prefer to go that route.

[00:17:56] Um, so providing those options. And then also the other misconception right now [00:18:00] that's a big question, is if both baseball for women and softball for women can coexist. And to me it's like, yes, of course they can coexist. It's two different athletes that are trying to play the sport. There's two different games.

[00:18:11] Um, but we do lose a lot of players. Two softball because of the lack of opportunity. But if there were opportunities, both could coexist. 

[00:18:19] Malaika Underwood: And just to emphasize the point,

[00:18:21] . This isn't just a baseball softball thing. The professional women hockey players that I work for, before the PWHL existed, they wanted to be the first woman in the NHL when they were kids.

[00:18:36] Because that's what they saw. That's what they knew. They wanted to be a professional hockey player. That was the only option. Now along the way, there were other iterations. There were other opportunities, and here we are at the, the PWHL and they have a great opportunity at the highest level to play and be professional athletes, um, not just by name.

[00:18:53] I mean, they're, they're paid to be full-time professional hockey players. That's what they do, and that's what they wanted to be. So [00:19:00] we, we can't, , pretend like this is just a baseball

[00:19:03] problem, right? This, this is a women's sports problem. If we're not giving them the outlet, of course they're gonna look at those opportunities that men have and say, well, I want that, and why shouldn't they?

[00:19:14] No one can answer that question to me other than they should.

[00:19:21] Mark Corbett: Absolutely. I mean, it's a solid answer and, and it's, it's slowly. Moving in the direction. I mean, you know, we talking about . Olivia are, uh, looking at Kelsey and not looking to be the first, but looking at somebody who's joined the game to move up NCAA Division one, division two softball or, or baseball rather.

[00:19:40] And no, there's not gonna, there's not gonna be a team or I should say, uh, league tomorrow with, for women with that. But there needs to be steps to get there because otherwise. I think you just still have people saying, oh, we got a woman on the team, or, oh, she's taking some man's place and, and one, I think if they wanna be on a team, co-ed or [00:20:00] whatever with it, fine.

[00:20:01] And they should be able to, but I think there should still be an opportunity for women to have a women's league if they want it. 

[00:20:07] Tamara Holmes: Yeah. And we've been, we would, we were. Hoping over the years, you know, from the silver bullets, from the women's, you know, professional baseball league, , even to USA baseball and especially I think more so with USA baseball, having such close ties to Major league baseball.

[00:20:24] That major league baseball would show some interest. And I, I think I shared with you, mark, like the, you know, the picture I saw on the internet with Manfred is like, Hey, wherever there's baseball, we're gonna put softball. Right. And to me it's like. What's the underlying thing that you've said there?

[00:20:38] You've never even recognized women's baseball. Uh, even when, even on our, during our gold medal or our tournaments, right? So. But , to me, that statement is saying, Hey, we're doubling down and, , and we're making, , a place where women should be. Right. And, , and I don't think I'm reading too much into that.

[00:20:55] , But now, like, and for him to come out and say that when there's aanother, [00:21:00] professional softball, , league happening, which, , I'm happy for, for that too. But again, it's, it's the narrative and it just, it really, , makes it hard on women's baseball overall. I 

[00:21:11] Veronica Alvarez: think it goes back to some ignorance too, right?

[00:21:13] And like, not to say that he's being, he is being ignorant, uh, by saying, you know, that the women's track is softball. I think it's the same que, like, it goes back to that same question that I've gotten so many times lately is can they both coexist? Can they both coexist? So his ignorance is making him think that they can't, so then therefore they're backing something that has more, you know, legs underneath it.

[00:21:36] Um, and so it, to them, it probably seems. Right, right. They have no idea. They probably think, they think it's the same sport. It's very similar. It's a female version, blah, blah, blah. All the things that we know are not true.

[00:21:52] Mark Corbett: Seriously, the understanding of just giving people a chance to play the dag on game and [00:22:00] Yeah. But, but looking for opportunities in the future. And Kelsey, you know, she's, she's she'll, she's opened that door, she's making it.

[00:22:07] People see it. But I look forward, I think we talked about this before, Veronica. I look forward to the time where we're not saying, talking about first, we're talking about good players being able to play in the game period. You know, and, and that's what she is. But as of now, first still seems to be something that's going to be.

[00:22:28] Part of the conversation when a woman's in, in the game, 

[00:22:31] Malaika Underwood: well into the topic of the night. If, when there are firsts, we don't need trolls, we don't, we don't need people bullying, the first or the only. Thank you. That that is just simply ridiculous. It is, is so low. Um, this person is putting themselves out there working hard, uh, earning a spot on whatever team they're playing on.

[00:22:51] And for people to. Use any platform, whether that be a social media platform or, or some other platform to, to try to tear somebody [00:23:00] down. It's just simply ridiculous. It's unacceptable. 

[00:23:04] Alex Oglesby: And it's unacceptable in any realm, right? I mean, truly it shouldn't be accepted in at any age, in any place. , But, , I see it even on the, in the boys baseball side, coaching on the boys side, it's, and.

[00:23:17] It's one of those things, a lot of times it just gets looked at as, oh, they're, they're, they're just kids being kids. And, , what we're seeing though. On the girls baseball side, just to speak to that. It goes just aanother level, right? It's not just the kids involved. Again, it goes back to the adults involved and it just causes so much more harm, , when they're having to put up with it at that age.

[00:23:38] I am so glad that social media wasn't around when I was a kid, first off, because that's brutal. I mean, people get to say. Everything that runs through their head at any given time. , And then you get the kids who go ahead and, and read it. Um, and they think every little thing is true. They think, you know, Joe Smith or or Kathy Smith on the back end of a comment [00:24:00] is, you know, the president of the United States and is, you know.

[00:24:05] An authority figure in, in the subject matter. Right. And it's just not true. So they, they take it as that everything that is said about them is true. And I can't imagine having to have played, boys baseball at that time. , With all of that going on. It was, it was bad enough to just hear the chatter and the dugouts when we were playing, let alone or behind me if I was catching and the parents behind me, I mean, that was enough.

[00:24:30] I didn't need to hear, all the other comments that were on social media. So, um, it's, it's just interesting what these girls are expected to put up with now as well, um, kids in general. But these, these girls are expected to put up with so much more and to be perfect on the field. And that just adds just a whole another layer to it and a whole another level of pressure within the game that's already hard enough.

[00:24:53] Tamara Holmes: It certainly is a climate of, uh, , quarterbacks and people just being able to feel [00:25:00] like they can say and do what they want. And like Veronica said, it's like in every realm, right? , For us as firefighters. , Sports, hockey, um, and people need to get back to. Some common decency and, and one thing it reminds me of is, uh, when a couple years back reading the Metheny Manifesto, and I believe he was an ex pro player, but was coaching little league and , just saw the, and I don't know when the book was written, but even then just realized the issues that parents could be and said, okay, here, , this is how I'm gonna run my team, and these are these things.

[00:25:33] And I feel like coaches are saying that now. But as soon as their players aren't, certain players aren't getting playing time, here comes the parents. And I was telling him, Alex, it's like, it surprises me because with travel ball there's way more opportunities. There's so many teams, and it seems like this problem has gotten harder.

[00:25:51] You would think with scarcity, right? That it would, you would see this stuff, but like there's teams everywhere and everyone decides like, you know, they have an [00:26:00] opinion about it. 

[00:26:02] Alex Oglesby: It is funny you bring up that book. Um, so I, we used to share that, , manifesto with all of our parents. Beginning of the year.

[00:26:09] We'd send that out because even when I first read that, there was pieces of it that were, I. Not new concepts. Concepts, but they were eyeopening to me as a parent. Right. I, I could see the coach's side, but I was new to it on the parent side and things like you're cheering your kid on, but you know, the pressure that that's putting on your kid and the whole extent that that thing went into, it's, it's a brilliantly written book and just the paper, you know, it's shortened down to just like a, um, a few pages that you can read, but.

[00:26:42] It really shows you what else athletes have to go through and what the external pressures are that put are put on an athlete. Um, and, and to your point, you get into these travel ball situations, I think now all of the parents just think that their kid should be the one, or their kid is the one. So [00:27:00] instead of not making a team and having to fight through that, every kid is given, given an opportunity everywhere.

[00:27:05] Um, which has its pros and cons too, right? So we just. Think that, um, our kids shouldn't be told no. And, um, they should be allowed to do whatever it is they want. And I think when you find, you know, the good coaches and the good programs are the ones that have those lines drawn where it's not tolerated, but unfortunately it get the kid who.

[00:27:28] Is, you know, hitting dingers and you know, is throwing 70 miles an hour as a 10-year-old and every coach wants 'em on their team 'cause they want the w. We're forgetting about the fact that, uh, youth sports is about development.

[00:27:46] Malaika Underwood: It is sad to see youth sports being sort of taken over in a way by business in that way, and they're all selling the dream. And, and that's what fuels it as they're selling the dream, there's more opportunity, to your point, Alex.

[00:27:59] , And so [00:28:00] now everyone thinks they're gonna be a, a pro. And the reality is there's a lot of lessons that, uh, we're losing out on teaching our kids because we're, we're, we're not, we're, we're treating youth sports differently.

[00:28:13] , It's not entirely different.

[00:28:14] , I'm not saying these problems didn't exist 20, 30, 40 years ago, but they do seem to be amplified. By the business of youth sports.

[00:28:30] Mark Corbett: Well, one first Malaika, thanks for, uh, drawing me back into where's he going with that. Uh, we talked about bullying, aren't we? Mark, seriously, I. I think we, we've all seen this and part of what I'm hoping from this gathering today is when we share this, that it gets out to parents and coaches because you have the opportunity to spend a few days with them, but, and you can instill in with the knowledge and the talent [00:29:00] and even the maybe a, a stronger attitude of, to face some of the impediments, but those impediments, the ones of bullying should not be there and.

[00:29:11] When I look at this, I hope that parents and coaches pick up on this and heck umpires and ho Dagon leagues pick up on this and they do what they need to do to make sure players are treated right, period. And getting on my high horse again. So forgive me, 

[00:29:31] Tamara Holmes: I like what Malaika said.

[00:29:32] If, you know what, when we talk about what we wanted to get out of this, right? I, I wanted something tangible that I could put out on some of these sites so that other girls could see that they're not on the island. Um, but also some of these parents, and like Malaika said, like the trolls that may or may look at it and have something critical to say is, let's not forget again that.

[00:29:55] Youth sports is about development. I want my kids to potentially play [00:30:00] sports, uh, because exercise is good for them and to make 'em better students and to learn life lessons on how to work with other people within teams and, and deal with ups and downs, right? So I. Let's take it back to that and not Mike, my 10-year-old is up grinding every day for what's gonna be, the next 10 or 15 years, , of hopefully, , becoming a professional athlete.

[00:30:21] Because if you look at the percentages right, it's still less than 2% or 3%, something ridiculous. Uh, that, and that is not changed in, in the same as this narrative hasn't changed much, that also has not changed. Um, but also like. For the other girls and women to know that like we're still out here working on a solution and one of the things that always comes back to me is, like Malaika said, is.

[00:30:49] Maybe having co-ed baseball, right? If you, if we start thinking about logistics and things like some of, , that could exist at the college level or the club level and some of these things [00:31:00] where it'll give opportunities to girls to go to college and still play and co-ed teams are also filled with guys who are good athletes, but maybe they couldn't make their, varsity teams. we do still have solutions that we are working on, right? It's not just, , us talking about this or complaining about it, but we want these girls to know that we see you. We want these parents that are out of P pocket to know that we also see you and, you know, like you're gonna get crushed if, if that isn't in front of any of us.

[00:31:31] Like, just, just be an adult and, and raise good kids. 

[00:31:35] Veronica Alvarez: Yeah. I mean, what an opportunity. It's like, to me it's super simple. It's like the girls just wanna play baseball, like just let 'em play baseball. And then from a parenting standpoint, your sons are gonna have to compete against women the rest of their life.

[00:31:50] Right? And for jobs and their careers, they're also gonna have to coexist with them and, and be friends with them, right? So like setting them up for success [00:32:00] now, like, let's just take advantage of that. Why are we waiting till later? 

[00:32:06] Mark Corbett: Wow. You hit it on the head with that one. I mean about preparing all the way through life.

[00:32:11] It's above and beyond. Just with this team. Guess what? You know you're gonna have men and women, men. You're gonna have to face women and part of the workforce. And if you've already got an issue, now you need to learn. Now. Parents, you need to guide your children so that they don't have that mindset as they continue to grow older and , that will help eliminate some of this bullying and some of the.

[00:32:33] Some of the poor treatment, , some folks are getting. 

[00:32:38] Veronica Alvarez: We are putting it all on Alex and she's the mother of two sons. Yeah, 

[00:32:43] Alex Oglesby: I was just gonna say, 

[00:32:46] Mark Corbett: you gotta carry the weight to Alex. 

[00:32:47] Alex Oglesby: I doing my best with my word. I can only raise my two, raise 

[00:32:51] Malaika Underwood: them right Alex. Raise them. Right. 

[00:32:53] Alex Oglesby: I, you know, I try, I think they're pretty good boys, but I also have a good group.

[00:32:57] But you know, I've been fortunate enough to [00:33:00] coach and Veronica's coaching, you know, young men also. And I think the impression that that makes is huge as well. And I, I tell you on the positive side is that I've gotten to be around a lot of great men. And Veronica, you speak so highly of some of the men you work with.

[00:33:16] Most of the men you work with at the A's, um, that are supportive men who, pass that message down. And support the message of. So what that she's a woman, right? She knows this game. She's authority to, um, there's, there's nothing different here from the message that you're receiving about, about baseball because she's a female.

[00:33:40] Uh, and I know the organization that I coach with here has been completely supportive. The boys don't bat an eye. They, you know, they're. They're great. , And the parents as well. So the message though, has come from the top. And, and I think that's probably the same within the A's organization. So I think it, it goes back to [00:34:00] just making sure that we're surrounded by good people that can pass that message on.

[00:34:04] And if I gotta raise two more to add to the, the good guy population, I will be happy to do that. 

[00:34:12] Veronica Alvarez: Yeah, it's, we, our presence in, in this space, right, uh, helps create a better experience for the young girls, which I know is a lot of why we do what we do, right? And even though it might seem like a, , insignificant interaction with a 12-year-old boy or 15 and under, whatever the case may be, uh, it goes a really long way for them to just make it normal that, that women are in the game, girls are in the game.

[00:34:35] and then they just kind of proceed forward with that being a common, like a norm, right? A, a right. Something they're accustomed to. Uh, but yes, like we, we sit here and we talk about the bullying and we sit and talk about the negative negativity of it, but all of us, um, know that there are a lot of supporters as well.

[00:34:52] Um, so always to make sure that we're, we're. Looking back on that and not just settling in our nega, the negative actions of some [00:35:00] people. Um, and in the spaces, just like Maleek originally said, the boys don't have an issue with it. Right? If you know how to play and you win, they're good with it. That's the same thing that happens as a grown woman in the professional male space, right?

[00:35:12] They know, I know the game. They, , , know I should be there teaching the game and they respect me for it, and they treat me, just the same as anybody else in the space. So, um, it's usually the people on the outside that have an issue with it, not the people within. And, and I'm working with ma, former major leaguers, 13, 15, 17-year-old, you know, year major leaguers that see me as a, as an equal in that space.

[00:35:33] And so. Again, it's educating the outside, but each of our touchpoint within the community I think is very valuable, um, to the growth of it. Sometimes it seems like snail pace and we have issues that take us backwards, but, um, it, it all does work in a positive direction eventually in the long run. 

[00:35:54] Tamara Holmes: And I must be, uh, I, you know, we give Alex, , all the pressure raising two boys, but also [00:36:00] having a son.

[00:36:00] I must have, . Went a little hard the other way because he asked me, I remember a few years ago if he could play, 'cause he didn't know that boys could play baseball, so he'd only seen me playing with the women or, or we had other women on our, uh, co-ed team. 

[00:36:14] Malaika Underwood: I have a similar story. My 5-year-old daughter, well she's seven now, but she was five and I thought it would, she would enjoy watching the little league series, um, world Series one summer because they were, you know.

[00:36:27] Kids, right? So she had seen adult women playing, but I'm like, oh, she'd love to see kids play. So she knows that she can play. So I turn it on and she's looking at the TV and she's kind of making this weird face. I'm like looking at me. And finally she says, mom, what sport is this? And I was like, it's baseball.

[00:36:43] And she says to me, boys play baseball. She had no idea. 'cause she had only seen women play baseball. So just think about what that says to. Seeing is believing. Like see her be here. All, all of those sayings is so true. She had no idea because in her [00:37:00] world, she had never seen boys play baseball. Never. 

[00:37:03] Alex Oglesby: Yep.

[00:37:04] The, there's aanother coach friend of ours who we also grew, uh, played, uh, baseball here in California together, and her son grew up in our dugout of women and, but his dad played slow pitch softball. So he'd always see his dad playing slow pitch softball and his mom playing baseball. And so somebody made a comment about, you know, him playing baseball and he's like, no, I'll play softball because boys play softball and girls play baseball.

[00:37:30] And you know, I never forget that story. And seeing him raised around all of these women,, he came. To girls tournaments with us, um, as a peer to all these girls, but would just helping out in the dugout or, or playing catch with them and, and is, you know, a total . Gentleman. And again, one of the, the guys who has been raised, raised well.

[00:37:55] And, um, I think there's probably a lot of stories like that. We just, we don't [00:38:00] hear 'em as often. 

[00:38:01] Tamara Holmes: You think, uh, guys in, in fast pitch softball are just sitting around like, nobody loves us, right? Like, I almost never see it. And I remember, remember when we were at the Pan, pan Ams we're sitting in the elevator and we're all, everyone's in USA gear and there was like a Columbian team on the elevator and we asked them like, Hey, what do you guys do?

[00:38:20] They're like, oh, we're track and field. And they look at us and we're like, we're women's baseball. And we see the other guys wearing the US gear, and we're like, what do you guys do? And they're like. We're in softball and everybody was just quiet.

[00:38:36] Mark Corbett: Oh, I love it. Oh. Those are some great examples of seeing where it's, it's almost not, uh, it's never, it's never an issue because they've grown up seeing women play baseball and there wasn't that competitive piece, like what you were talking about, Alex, and, but I love that story, Tamara. That is, that is something.[00:39:00] 

[00:39:01] Tamara Holmes: We've, uh, appreciate you, , allowing us to use this as a, as an outlet. Like I said, I, I, I just hope that if it reaches a couple of people and, and they know that like we care and that they should be sticking up for themselves sometimes, uh, I like to say proverb ally, you have to punch a bully in the mouth.

[00:39:18] Right. Uh, and there may have been a time growing up as a youth where I had to physically do that, but, uh, people are just gotten too bold with, uh, being rude and 

[00:39:28] Yep. 

[00:39:29] Tamara Holmes: And, and it's an issue. And if you wanna raise, you know, good kids that are good in sport and good in life, like something has to change. 

[00:39:39] Mark Corbett: I wanna thank you all for sharing your stories and your thoughts on this and, and I wanna thank you as somebody who enjoys the game, you know, all that you've achieved and all that you're continuing to do.

[00:40:36] Tamara Holmes: I appreciate that. All right. And all my friends, of course. 

[00:41:20] Malaika Underwood: Thank you, Mark. Thank you, appreciate.

Suggested Reading:

The Matheny Manifesto: A Young Manager's Old-School Views on Success in Sports and Life https://bit.ly/3SQWmJC

Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls in Sport A Handbook for Policy Makers and Sports Practitioners  https://bit.ly/3SSelzi

Stop Bullying www.stopbullying.gov