ALCS, NLCS; Gambling & Social Media plus What's Erik Neander really saying

319 BaseballBiz_World Series_Gambling is out of Control

[00:00:00] Mark Corbett: What, what's that about? Huh? Welcome to BaseballBiz on Deck. Mat Germain is Here. Mark Corbett is here. And you're here. We're gonna have a good time tonight. Oh my gosh. Mat. What's happening, brother? It's World Series time almost next week. 

[00:00:17] Mat Germain: Yeah, the, I'm disappointed, mark. I, I was hoping the Brewers would be a bigger matchup for the Dodgers.

[00:00:24] Now, having said that, they haven't been blown out of the water, but I was hoping the Brewers would come out firing , and at least score some runs , and put some pressure on the, , Dodgers pitching. But so far it's a little lackluster and the Blue Jays are struggling against , the Mariners pitching.

[00:00:40] So it seems like two strong handed series so far. Hopefully that changes today and tomorrow. 

[00:00:47] Mark Corbett: Yeah, I was talking with somebody today about the World Series 35 years ago when you had, what was it? The, , Cincinnati Reds and the, A's you had Lou Pinellas, uh, reds and you had Tony La Russa's A's, [00:01:00] and that, that World Series only went four games.

[00:01:03] They swiped 'em out in four games. And I was kidding. 'cause I always said, well, Marge Shott probably didn't enjoy that because the money, all of those games was lost. But I don't wanna see that happen at this level either, man. Uh, let's face it, what the Dodgers that were going home, they, they've been playing Milwaukee in Milwaukee and they took two games there and they're going home now.

[00:01:26] Mat Germain: . , I said on Blue Sky that nothing, the Dodgers do impresses me because it, it's like watching, you know, the, the dream team being put together and just humming, hawing through a series. Um, that's why I don't like super teams. I really don't. And that's why they ruin the sport, because they're just like, eh, they're supposed to win.

[00:01:49] Yeah. That's great. Okay, let's move on to next year and try it again. And it, and it pull, puts a, a lull. On the win now Dodgers fans will be happy and they'll be [00:02:00] elated. And some of the elitist that believe the sport should only be dominated by a few cities and everybody else can eat dirt, you know, those people will be happy.

[00:02:09] But, um, I like to think that most people want a competitive league and would be much happier if the games were nail biters and really competitive and we went to a seventh game, right? Something like that. Or even a sixth. Like I think back to the Rays Dodgers series, that was a good series. There was some fist firing on both sides.

[00:02:30] Randy Arozarena was having his a good times and uh, Brett Phillips was having a good time. And it was good pitching. It was good defensive plays. It was a highlight reel. Right now, I just don't feel the same way. Yeah. 

[00:02:45] Mark Corbett: Yeah, it's, I I, well, when you feel like the team has been bought and they're at a level that just beyond most other ones can even begin to gather that much talent on one team, of course.

[00:02:56] I, I really thought, Mat, that the Mets would be here when you're talking about Tyler [00:03:00] screen spent for talent. And that didn't happen. I mean, it was, you thought it was gonna happen. I mean, it's one of those teams that took a slide, , toward the end. And, um, I don't know. 

[00:03:10] Mat Germain: I would love for you to go and, and, you know, sometime in the next two weeks, add up the money that, that the Mets spent on pitching compared to what the Dodgers spent on pitching.

[00:03:21] It's night and day like. It's, I think there's hundreds of millions of indifference. So, uh, that, that's where the difference is between those two teams. 

[00:03:29] Mark Corbett: I take a lot of money. You gave to, oh, Soto. I'm sorry. Soto. Juan Soto. Geez. Or yeah. Oh, there was some dollars spent, I mean, maybe could have spread some of that across pitching a little better 

[00:03:40] Mat Germain: or, or not get another first basement and let Pete Alonso walk.

[00:03:46] I would've done it as well. 

[00:03:47] Mark Corbett: Right. Well they, yeah, I mean, it looks like that might happen now. Did Is he opting out? Are they opting outta him right now? 

[00:03:53] Mat Germain: He opted out. He's looking for seven years. I think. You know, first basemen have been ruined. [00:04:00] Bym Cabrera and Albert Poho when it comes to the 10 year pack.

[00:04:04] So at least Scott Boris is, is getting the, you know, meter stick down by three years. So that's a start. But he's also one year older than Albert and Megi were when they got their big deals. And um, I think, you know, even he might get six years, the fi six year might be an option or mutual option or something of the sort.

[00:04:23] Um. But I, I see more of a five year deal for a team that's a little bit more desperate and, and wants to take that next step forward. Geez. 

[00:04:33] Mark Corbett: Well, the thing is, there is a lot of movement this time of year. Mm-hmm. And you know, one of the things I'm looking at this at the, well, you're talking about, uh, Alonso opting out.

[00:04:44] I mean, is it right this time of year when all the contracts and such are either coming up and there's either gonna be free agents or people can opt out or they can allow the team, they say, okay, it's been nice working with you, but you know, we're opting out with you, or you can opt out with us, so we should see a [00:05:00] lot of movement and we are.

[00:05:01] Mat Germain: Yep. And you're gonna start seeing people put on waivers or, or pa try to pass them through waivers at. And teams are gonna start sorting their rosters out for that 40 man roster. So what happens is all those players that were on the 60 day il yeah. Have to be transferred back onto the 40 man. So there's a crunch.

[00:05:21] Normally you can, you know, some of those are automatics. Sometimes the team has different ambitions than you, you know, thought they would have. And they keep some players that you're a little bit surprised of, um, or they end up coming to a deal where they sign them for a little bit longer than, than you had expected.

[00:05:38] So I think Cole Sulser was an example for the Rays last year where they kept him. He's a little bit older reliever and I, I was surprised. Um, anyways, but yeah, there, there'll be a lot of roster movement within, I don't know, it'll probably kick up in, in about a week and a half. 

[00:05:54] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, probably once the World Series is done, [00:06:00] we'll see it all happen, but.

[00:06:02] I've always, as far as baseball biz on deck, I've always been interested in watching the managers. 'cause one thing we have to get somebody out here to talk about this more, we know the players have Scott Boris or some other agent managing them. And I'd like to learn more about what a lot of these managers who are signing on with teams, do they have agents and who are they and what kind of deals are they working?

[00:06:23] Or is this just somebody sitting across the table from John Henry at this Red Sox and saying, you know, well, you know, the, whoever the manager may be, uh, what is it? For instance, just take this to the Moneyball movie. Okay? They have Brad Pitt coming in and see John Henry, and it's just a one-on-one them talking about, you know, working for him.

[00:06:42] There's no agent in the room. Now I realize that's more myth than, you know, with a movie than it is maybe in reality, but it does beg the question. Uh oh, one other thing I've neglected to ask or mention is that. For him to have talked to John Henry. He had to get [00:07:00] approval from his team, if I remember correctly, for a manager to be able to look at another team.

[00:07:05] He asked to ask his boss's permission. So this isn't like you and I, we said, eh, we're disgruntled with a job and we can go ahead and start looking for jobs elsewhere and still be where we're at. No, these guys, they have to get approval to even talk to another team. But there has been so much movement Mat.

[00:07:22] I mean, with managers this year I'm looking, oh geez, if this year, okay. Brandon Hyde with the Orioles, May 17th out. Derek Shelton with the Pirates, May 8th. Bud Black with the Rockies May 11th out, and there's nothing Bud could have done with what he had with that product. Come on. People, uh, Davey Martinez with the Nationals out.

[00:07:45] Bob Melvin with the Giants, you know, more recently out, uh, Ron Washington recently as well, out with the Angels. So you're looking at all of these different teams and you look back toward the beginning. Let's see, we also had, who's retiring? [00:08:00] Brian Snitker, Bruce Bochy and Mike Shildt just a couple of days ago with the Padres.

[00:08:07] Wow. 

[00:08:09] Mat Germain: Yeah. It's a thankless job, mark. 

[00:08:12] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[00:08:12] Mat Germain: Yeah. I proceed. Uh, it, it's one of those things where the carousel has always existed. Right. And I think you're right. We don't, the one that comes out to mind when you were talking about the agent part of it, and the, the way the teams have to treat it is when the rays lost Joe Maddon to the Cubs.

[00:08:30] Mark Corbett: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:31] Mat Germain: You know, they had a, a big fiasco. The raids were pretty irate when, when Joe decided to skip ship and, and, and go over there and sign a huge deal. I think it was one of the more significant deals outside of Joe Tory, uh, in terms of, uh, what they were getting paid at the time. And I, I would be lying if I remember the amount, but I just remember everybody going for a manager, right.

[00:08:54] And I think there was a penalty that they had to pay where they actually sent a player to, to the Rays, [00:09:00] uh, in order to make the quote unquote trade happen. 

[00:09:03] Mark Corbett: Wow. 

[00:09:03] Mat Germain: And, and trying to give him compensation for having lost, uh, Joe Maddon. So I don't know if Joe Maddon had representation. I do know he probably had a lawyer present when he was negotiating the deal, checking all the i's and crossing the t's.

[00:09:17] Whether or not you call that person an agent or not, I mean. You, you pay a lawyer enough that you, you essentially, you know, 

[00:09:26] Mark Corbett: they are an agent 

[00:09:27] Mat Germain: by that time. They know the market well enough that they know what other managers are getting paid. So if they're pushing the bar up, it's because they know the team is desperate to get them on board.

[00:09:36] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[00:09:37] Mat Germain: The other one I, I can think of is when Oakland signed, um, what's his name? The, the, the, the Raiders signed, uh, the guy to the 10 year a hundred million dollar deal. What was that one? I can't remember his name. I can't conjure. Yeah. And, and he ended up not even lasting halfway through the deal. And, and he walked, he was fired and he ended up, you know, [00:10:00] at home pocketing $50 million, you know, over the next five years.

[00:10:04] So, uh, yeah, managers have a thankless job and, and they get paid well nowadays for it. 

[00:10:11] Mark Corbett: Well, and they, well, they should too. And you talked about Joe Maddon and he certainly made a difference for that team, didn't he? World Series of curses bound were wiped away. And Joe Maddon came in and brought some rays with him to, on, on top of that, I think Ben Zobrist came over there with him and some others and made a big difference.

[00:10:30] And, and Joe, man, man, I've got all the respect in the world for this guy. Because he was the Blend, he, he was a guy who. Who trusted what he saw in the tools of a player, but he also trusted what he saw with analytics, and he didn't let one overrun the other. He, he trusted his gut, but at the same time, he was going to be able to, um, make decisions, you know, with the analytics.

[00:10:55] So I, I respect him for what he did with that. And it begs the [00:11:00] question, though, Mat, looking at Joe Maddon and looking at all of these empty spots, you know, where's Buck Showalter? Where, where's Joe Maddon? Where's some other guys? Are we gonna see them pop up? Because right now there's, there's plenty of openings.

[00:11:13] And we had Jane Leavy , here last week, and it was a joy. But we talked about how the evolution of the game and we talked about, uh, managers trusting their gut or trusting analytics. So that was interesting to see and trying to see with that mindset, what do managers. Excuse me. What do general managers wanna see in the manager for their team?

[00:11:40] Uh, Buster Posey. He's letting Bob Melvin go. Who's he gonna come back with now? He used to play for Bruce Bochy, I think, and uh, was it maybe back down around 2010, 12 and 14. They, they won World Series, you know, so I doubt that Bochy, who's retiring from the Rangers, who knows, maybe [00:12:00] he would wind up there.

[00:12:00] But somebody I was talking with today said, mark, he's hall of fame bound. You know, he doesn't need to go anywhere. And I said, yeah, you know, may, maybe he is ready to retire. But time and time again, you hear about this being a grind. I wanna say more about that in a moment, but do you have any ideas for coaches who are bench coaches right now that you think might be coming into the mix for, for some of these positions?

[00:12:26] Mat Germain: I think if you look across the board, they generally tend to go towards teams that have had recent success because everybody's a little bit of a copycat. Um, you know, the Rays are probably less of an attractive. Option for that just because of they've had two consecutive seasons of failures, uh, or perceived failures where, where people will look at it and go, oh, okay.

[00:12:48] They'll evaluate it at whatever level. I will say that in a lot of cases, and I heard this during the, the Yankees series from a reputable source, [00:13:00] that the manager does not always get to make the calls. 

[00:13:03] Mark Corbett: No, 

[00:13:03] Mat Germain: I on players on who pitching on a whole bunch of different subjects and, and sometimes it comes from above.

[00:13:11] The Yankees are one of those. Teams who reportedly were the ones dictating when a player, a pitcher was pulled and when he was going in, when a, when a hitter substituted in, when a hitter substituted out. Um, so, you know, you can look at Aaron Boone and say, yeah, I can, I get, it's the Yankees, they get to make the call, whatever, but who, you know, why are you hiring Aaron Boone and why do you have him in that position if you're not going to let him use his instincts to make the call?

[00:13:41] So looking back at it though, it the same thing applied to the Rays. Kevin Cash will tell you that it was a group decision to pull Blake sne. It was not just him. It was a consortium of people that decided that it was the time to take him out. So. [00:14:00] All I'm saying is that managers nowadays with all the rules and all the pressures and all the, they have, you know, a plethora of pressures and, and influences and everything else.

[00:14:12] When you look at Alex Cora, for example, in, in Boston, right, that the things that he's survived over the years is, is insane. And you talked about John Henry, he is not a pleasant owner to work for. Uh, you know, uh, there's, there's a whole bunch of guys that I know would like to get back in. John Gibbons is one that I've heard on interviews a lot of times he wants to get back into the game.

[00:14:34] There's bench coaches everywhere that have worked, , with eX-rays or that we've worked with the Dodgers or the Cubs. That would probably be, uh, enticing to a lot of teams. Generally speaking, , it's whatever ownership can get that will say yay to the way that they want things to operate.

[00:14:52] So if they want to be a hands off ownership, like the Raysd new ownership seems to want to be right, and they want that front office [00:15:00] relationship to be a certain way, that person has to fit that mold and that's where it starts. And I think that's why Bud Black in, in Colorado, that system was broken because it was, you know.

[00:15:14] The, the ownership dictating what players they got the entire time and the front office didn't Mater. Yeah. So at that point they're, the relationship between the front office and the coaching is, is broken because there's just frustration all the way through. So I think they're changing that now finally.

[00:15:30] But they've had to take years and years and years to learn our lesson. Sort of like what the Angels did, right? Their owner was doing the same kind of stuff and, and he stepped back now where he is letting things ride out a little bit more. But, um, you know, they've built another kind of relationship where they treated Ron Washington the way we spoke,, with Jane about, and, and so how, who's gonna want to step into that job when they saw somebody get thrown under the bus like that.

[00:15:54] Probably not that many or a certain type of person will want to go in and [00:16:00] probably not the one that you want to be quite honest. It's going to be somebody that, that, um, that is just looking for that opportunity. 'cause you can't get it anywhere else. So you may not be the best qualified person. Right.

[00:16:10] Yeah. So you gotta, you gotta be careful, you know, reaping what you sow. 

[00:16:17] Mark Corbett: Oh, brother. Ain't that, isn't that the truth? You know, you talk about Rob Washington, I heard one rumbling, somebody suggesting that Albert Pujols mm-hmm. Could come in as the Angels manager. I thought now that would be energetic to see how that worked out.

[00:16:32] I mean, as a, he's always been a leader in the game, you know, as a person, as a human being on and off the field. So, I would definitely be interested in seeing that. But the other thing is, if you're looking at Joe Maddon or Buck Showalter, are they even interested in coming back to what this game has become from the front office?

[00:16:48] I mean, you've got some great talent and, but are, are you ready to come back if you think that the landscape has changed so much as far as your role as a, what are [00:17:00] any manager's role is today compared to five years ago? 

[00:17:04] Mat Germain: I think you remember when we talked to Kevin and he was talking about how he's happy where he is in aa?

[00:17:09] Yep. I think there's a lot of merit to that, right? Um, a lot of times you, you kind of want to be at the top. You want to be an MLB, you wanna have all the pressures, the glory that come with winning, yada, yada, yada. But let's face it, there's just one team out of 30 that wins it that year, right? Everybody else is a loser.

[00:17:27] So, so you, you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself, you're putting your family through a lot of things. Yeah. You're losing a lot of connections that you otherwise could make, you know, in a community where you might have more stability. Um, so I think, I'm hoping that what you'll see is a lot of them take more of an advisory role, uh, get more jobs in AA and, and kind of, um, you know, relax a little bit like some of these guys have been warned to the nubs in, in terms of the year after year after year of pressure.

[00:17:58] Oh yeah. And I think it's good to step back [00:18:00] once in a while and, and just relax a little bit. 

[00:18:03] Mark Corbett: Well, when we look at the managers and those who are most tenured, if I was having this conversation with you last year, I would say number one, Kevin Cash, most tenured, I think he's about 11 years now. Uh, at be beneath him, uh, we would, we'd see Dave Roberts, who's, I don't see him going anywhere.

[00:18:23] Uh, number three would've been Brian Snitker. You know, he's leaving. Yeah. Then number four would've been Arizona, Diamondbacks, Tory, Lovullo. I think he just resigned, uh, a one year contract with them. But number five was the Rockies with Bud Black. So there's. Two of those five that are gone. And what is it? You know, you talk about the stress of this job and, and the, the level of being able to be at a double A level and probably be the guy who's making all the decisions and not having to keep look over in your shoulder or, or check your phone for a text slip, something.

[00:18:58] It has to make a world of [00:19:00] difference. Mike Shildt of the Padres just announced two days ago that he's leaving the Padres and the word people talked about the grind and, uh, he said even about having difficulty sleeping and other things. But what he didn't initially say, but he shared LA shared later was the gambling.

[00:19:20] Mm-hmm. Gambling, not his, but gambling as an institution has impacted him and how well that's come through Death threats, uh, disgruntled fans and many times people were, who were, uh, spending money with that. Let me, I wanna come back to him in a minute.

[00:19:39] Looking back in 2019, the Rays had a situation going on. This comes from Athlon Sports. They have something about fan abuse and I am reading this. Let's see. Uh, the social media feedback loop makes players and their families directly reachable instantly and anonymously the legal gambling [00:20:00] and see the adds volatility to bad beats and blown parlays.

[00:20:06] And they say, you know, you can see how this cocktail turns a bad night into a threat in , an inbox. , so in 2021, a sports gamblers found guilty of sending threatening social media, uh, to the players in the Tampa Bay Rays. The gentleman by the name of Benjamin Tucker Pot, Patz of Napa, California pleaded guilty in Tampa Federal court to transmitting threats in interstate or foreign commerce.

[00:20:26] He was found guilty of having made numerous violent threats in 2019 against athletes and the members, their family members, through anonymous Instagram accounts. And that's, that's interesting in of itself. But he was thinking, okay, so he's been found guilty and they even found other, uh, athletes above and beyond the Rays college athletes, others where this guy had done this.

[00:20:50] Now he had even some saying where he was threatened to entering their, uh, the homes and beheading their family members. This, Mat, this is the kinda human being. This, this [00:21:00] guy is now what, what amazed me. Is that sentencing? He basically got probation. He got probation. Some community service. Hey, you get some mental health and uh, I'm always good for getting people for mental health.

[00:21:17] There's nothing that's an ideal thing needs to be done, but some punitive action, you know, some correctional facility. This guy needed to be spending some time there. You, you cannot let these people walk. 

[00:21:32] Mat Germain: So I have a lot of thoughts. Mark. This is a, I don't think we have enough time on this show, but. The, uh, you know, now sports athletes know how abused women feel like, honestly.

[00:21:43] Yeah. Like, it, it takes a long time before people take things seriously. And sadly, it usually takes until something violent happens and there's an actual physical crime, and it's too late at that point. And, and, you know, the, the worst has happened. And then eventually, even once that happens, [00:22:00] it, the, the laws may or may not change.

[00:22:01] They may change in one community. They may change in that one state. You know, it, it takes a long time before everything, you know, leaks over to be the norm across the board. Yeah. I think back to seat belts, seat belts and vehicles, it took forever to get that instituted across the board. Right. Um, anyways, the, the growth of gambling I is definitely one of the biggest, um.

[00:22:27] Evils of the sports empire and it's changing things for the worst. Uh, I really, really, really, really don't like it. Uh, I think we need to go back to it being illegal or more or harder to do, and I know it'll ever happen. But if you go back to just 2022, right? Mm-hmm. And, and this is not a long time, you're, you're looking at, you know, the growth of gambling more than doubling from 2022 to what it is now.

[00:22:59] Sure. Now it's not [00:23:00] because wages have doubled from 2022 to now. Right. So what it means is that the population, this is just in the United States, so the population of the United States has gotten poorer by double the amount that. They had in 2022. 'cause nobody wins in gambling. They made for one week a month, whatever.

[00:23:22] But the, the bets are made in a certain way by Vegas because they know that they're getting the best odds. Like they, they, that's just the way that things operate. They're not gonna give you the best odds. That's just not, you know, good business. Yeah. The other thing you have to consider when you, okay, so now you're saying, okay, the money has doubled.

[00:23:41] So now you have the owner's attention, right? You have Vegas's attention and who runs Vegas? Is it really upright standing citizens? Is it, , people who have, , often been tied to, black market crimes? Is it? 

[00:23:58] Mark Corbett: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:59] Mat Germain: So [00:24:00] you have to consider the Vegas influence across the board in all sports. So what does that mean?

[00:24:09] That means when you, when you're sitting in a booth in New York and you're making a call on a certain game. Somebody may pick up the phone and call you and say, you know what? That call that you're about to make a call on may not actually be what you think it is. Right? And then it gets done a certain way.

[00:24:27] And it's the only thing that makes sense, mark, because I watch football, and I'm telling you right now that there, the games across the board have been atrocious in terms of refereeing, okay? Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:38] Mark Corbett: And, 

[00:24:38] Mat Germain: and even the replays, even when everybody's on the same page. Yep. Okay. It's gonna be that call. They go to the review and boom, it comes out the opposite.

[00:24:45] And everybody's like, how did that happen? Like, it doesn't make sense. And then the key thing that I'm gonna say, mark, is the, the Kansas City Chiefs lost a game recently where all, uh, sorry, four of the, uh, [00:25:00] umpires on the field, or sorry, referees on the field were suspended. Pending a review of the work that they did on the field because the Chiefs lost.

[00:25:12] Now, I'm telling you right now, mark, I've been watching sports for a long time. I don't remember a moment when the NFL decided to suspend referees because they thought the refereeing was so bad. It's been atrocious across the board for decades. This is just known fact, right? So, so what, who made that call to Roger Goodell and said, listen, you're suspending those guys 'cause they cost us a bunch of money.

[00:25:39] Hmm. That is where that pressure comes. So the, the question now is, okay, who is running the leagues? Who, and, and all that pressure that goes into that. It leaks down into the teams, into the players, into the fans. The fans have a lot at stake, and I get it, it's a lot of money. There's a lot of things going on.

[00:25:58] I just finished watching [00:26:00] Rat Race. With my daughter and in Rat Race, you know, uh, Cuba Gooding Jr. Made the bad call on the, uh, coin flip, and then it cost the cabbie that ends up driving him $20,000 on, because of the call being blown and yada yada, and, and things turning out the way they did in overtime.

[00:26:17] And that was so true in that movie. I, I think back to it, I'm like, you know, it's applicable because if your livelihood, and especially in the economy we're in right now, where people are desperate, mark, you're just leading them with, you know, it's the istic, right? You're, you're, you're adding fuel to the fire and you're giving them false hope.

[00:26:37] And, and, and so Tristan Costas came out recently and spoke about the pressures that he was facing and how he almost, or no, it was Jared Duran, wasn't it? 

[00:26:46] Mark Corbett: I think so. Duran. 

[00:26:47] Mat Germain: Yeah. And so, you know, you think back to that, you're like, yeah, well, the fans that, you know, were re reacting to their own self pressures.

[00:26:54] And it used to happen in the background for very few people for college [00:27:00] basketball. Remember that? That was the big thing. Everybody had a bookie. You went, oh yeah. And you placed bets with your bookie. It was so shady though, that you never did it out in the open, and it was so hard to do, to find a bookie to begin with.

[00:27:11] And they're like, you knew your life was at stake, right? So, so you're not gonna overstep your boundaries as much as you can help it. But now it's, it's as easy as a couple of clicks and boom, like, your bed is made. And, uh, I don't like it, mark. I don't like it one bit. 

[00:27:30] Mark Corbett: I get it. I I really do. I gotta tell you though, Mat, where I grew up, you couldn't throw a stone without hitting a bookie.

[00:27:37] That's just me, where I grew up. , Yeah, but it's, but it was like, you know, some small town, it didn't really feel like any hustle was going on, or it wasn't like big numbers. Uh, but it, it is gotten to be, like you said, transitioning that small amount there for just some, uh, shady back room to where we're seeing how they are going after people.

[00:27:59] [00:28:00] And even in the stadiums I was looking at earlier today, was it Ketel Marte, he was at, uh, bat in Chicago and somebody started saying things about his mother who's deceased. You know, it is like, what, what, what is it with these people? I mean. I, I understand you wanna wave if your guys batting or pitching and you wave your towels and you're expecting that you're gonna make some kind of impact on the pitcher and that kind of silliness as being part of the team.

[00:28:26] But standing there and saying terrible things to someone or their family or harassing them and, uh, threatening to behead them, breaking to their homes and eat behead 'em, it's, it's just in insane. And on that one article, uh, from Athlon Sports, they quoted Pew Research Center saying there's been a, let's see, 41% of us, US adults have personally experienced some form of online harassment.

[00:28:55] And this gambling piece, you put these two together. 'cause I think that's what the [00:29:00] author was trying to say in there, is you bring these two elements together and it just magnifies it, it just, it can, you know, makes the situation untenable to where, to somebody like, uh, Shildt winds up presenting. 

[00:29:14] Mat Germain: Yeah. It's, I don't know.

[00:29:18] The other part I want to say is that the, the, the advertising of sports gambling is just getting to be ridiculous. Yeah. Like, you can't go on Facebook, YouTube, any site, any game that you put on, there's a, an ad that'll pop up. There's a few ads, there's a few companies, and God forbid you have happen to click on that by mistake and then boom, it'll be across the board on all the websites that you open for eternity.

[00:29:45] , It's one of one of the things we did in Canada, I can remember as a kid, and, and this is when smoking was starting to get to be, , the bad guy is, is the, one of the first things they did is they said, formula one, all sports, they are not allowed to advertise [00:30:00] smoking because it was bad for your health.

[00:30:03] Well, gambling is bad for your health. Right. It, yeah. Yeah. It is for your mental health, for your physical health, for your kids' health, for your family's health, for your, your community's health. So it gamble, sports gambling ads should be banned. That, that is the, the next step. And I, you know what? I'll start a petition if I have to, and, and I'll put it out there in Canada so that people can actually sign on because, like I said, there's no good that comes of it.

[00:30:32] If you wanna be somebody that, you know, takes a Bristol board out and, and creates some of those grids for the Super Bowl, right, where everybody buys a square for $2 and you do the, the, and it's fun and it's a one time event for, that's great. That's fine. You want to be with, with your buddies in the bar and bet 50 bucks on a game.

[00:30:50] That's fine. That's, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the systematic, um. Gambling that where, where you end up [00:31:00] giving up significant amounts of your salary and it grows over time and it gets more addictive. And as you keep chasing the amount, it gets worse and worse. And then so.

[00:31:10] The behavioral part that you're talking about, though, I think that is more social media centric. So from 2012 to 2015, what they noticed is that people have more anxiety that is social media based, because everybody started to get disconnected from their feelings. They weren't exposed to the same kinds of interactions as they used to, like on, uh, you know, in playgrounds and parks and, and taking as many risks and building up their confidence and learning through social interactions that were physical or personal in nature.

[00:31:42] Instead, they were doing it all online. And so I think it's more of that aspect where everything is abrupt, everything is a a hundred miles an hour, and, and they feel like they're invincible. And, and in those cases, like the, for teens for example, they, a lot of states, a lot of [00:32:00] provinces, a lot of countries have come up with laws that are anti-bullying, that are anti-this, anti that.

[00:32:05] So you need to do the same for players. And really the leagues need to be the advocates of that, right? They need to be the ones enforcing. It used to be like almost laughed at and comical to people, oh wait until you go into Philly and people will yell all kind of obscenities at you. Or the same thing in the outfield, in in Yankee Stadium.

[00:32:23] Should that really be allowed? , Is it something that you would actually do in church? , And so what, what makes it okay? Like, and what example are you showing to the population around you? Like it is time for us to actually gain some respect for ourselves and actually behave like normal human beings.

[00:32:43] Mark Corbett: Thank you. 

[00:32:44] Mat Germain: And realize that we're not, , above and beyond these players, and they're not, certainly not above and beyond us, and we need to have a respectful relationship. If you went into spring training and you're yelling all these obscenities, people would look at you and think that you're [00:33:00] crazy.

[00:33:00] Like, because everybody's there to have a good time. The mood is, is relaxed. There's no sports gambling going on, you know, yet on spring training. And, and so that's the kind of atmosphere, the positive energy, the kind of, um, interactions that allow you to get closer to players and they'll wanna be closer to you because you're not, you know, yelling obscenities at them.

[00:33:21] And then, so you're building core memories for everybody at that point, that they'll remember the rest of their lives. Well do the same through the year. Like build the league that you want to have with nothing but positives in it as much as you can help it. 

[00:33:38] Mark Corbett: You know, I think probably on the back of a ticket when you go in there, yes.

[00:33:41] There, if there was such a thing as a back of a ticket anymore on your, uh, electronic ticket, there's maybe something in there as far as code of conduct about where you can smoke and where you can't smoke. You know what signage in some places now you can't bring, if I had a hat with a certain message on it, there's a political that I probably wouldn't be allowed into some [00:34:00] stadiums and such.

[00:34:01] And that's their rules and they hold those up. And to be able to expect a certain behavior of a fan, I think is realistic. Um. I think some fans, I know some of 'em that, uh, where they're saying, okay, well you're, you're, you can't come to our ballpark again for this year. You know, maybe that's it. Oh, okay.

[00:34:21] Well, maybe, and you've done something terrible. Well, that particular person can't come back ever again and. That that's nothing. I mean, there's times where you're threatening somebody and their family and you walk away from that with, oh, you can't buy a ticket from me anymore. No, no. That just, that just gets to be stupid and pardon me, but I, I can't think of a better way to explain it that we don't have better measures.

[00:34:47] But it goes back to what you're saying, man, just being good people be, be respectful of one another. Uh, but you had this gentleman who was doing this back in 2019 with the Ray and his [00:35:00] name. What would I say was, uh, geez, hang on here. Uh oh. His nickname was parlay. Like you parlay in a bit. Yeah. That's dangerous right there.

[00:35:09] You, you know, that person's already got problems in their life when their nickname is parlay, so I don't know. Geez man. So if you were, if you let me know if you get that, I know you're up there in north of, of our border or you're south of our whatever. I'm south of your Anyway, if you work up a petition up there, uh, in your province, I'd love to hear what comes back.

[00:35:31] 'cause I think it's worth putting something out there, boys and girls, uh, to hold fans accountable. People accountable in these games 

[00:35:39] Mat Germain: be a steep hike, uh, mark, and I'll tell you why. Because if you look back at the, let's say the 1950s, right? The, the government was a, and governments in general were anti alcohol, anti-tobacco, anti this, anti that.

[00:35:53] Eventually they learned how to make money from tobacco by taxing it like crazy. Eventually they, they got to, to [00:36:00] be in control of alcohol and that most of the establishments in Canada are actually government run. So they own alcohol and cigarettes and marijuana now, 'cause marijuana is legal, they're all government owned and run the majority anyway.

[00:36:15] Uh, and then gambling is also government owned. And they say, oh, we, we put that money back into the communities. Yeah, sure, sure you do. Show me, show me the receipts, mark. I wanna see the receipts and I want to know where it's coming from and where it's going to. Yeah. Uh, but that's not what the way it's gonna happen.

[00:36:32] But that's besides the point. Right. Uh, I think just using that example, they treat. Cigarettes a certain way, and they even put these godawful pictures on these cigarette packs, right. To scare the, the daylights out of you so that you don't smoke. They have all these warnings now on alcohol bottles and on beer bottles about, you know, the impacts and the can links to cancer and all that kind of stuff.

[00:36:56] So they need to treat gambling the same way [00:37:00] and put all kinds of warnings and restrictions on it. So I do think that sports is in jeopardy in that front because it could get out of hand in a hurry. , Even from a league point of view, because we all know, like you can say that they can, they can hire security and make sure that everybody's going to be safe.

[00:37:19] This isn't that level of security, right? This is, this is a different level of pressure and mafia links and, it's not something that you can easily step over and, and be comfortable with when you go home and you're with your family and you're driving your car home and, you know, you're always looking over your shoulder at some point.

[00:37:38] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[00:37:39] Mat Germain: So, yeah, I, I feel for people making those calls, making those decisions, the, the referees and umpires and all these games and, , they get yelled at and, and have obscenities thrown at them just as much as the players do. So, uh, I don't know, mark, like you, you know, uh, not only are you taking a lot of their roles away in a lot of these [00:38:00] sports by having all the reviews and everything else, but you're adding these kinds of pressures on as well.

[00:38:04] Like, I dunno, they don't get paid enough in my book. 

[00:38:08] Mark Corbett: Well, we just get rid of all the human factor together. We do all robo ump. They make all the calls, no human being, so it'll be somebody instead of, you can't, uh, intimidate a human being and trying to intimidate a computer. You, you learn, have to learn how to hack into that computer and okay, that was a ball after all.

[00:38:30] Mat Germain: Well, you bring up a good point, mark. So what's to say? You can't hire a hacker to infiltrate the systems in New York and alter the video that is presented to the person making that call. You know, AI can do all of that in a heartbeat, like bef in a nanosecond before you can even recognize any of it. So I, when are we gonna get to that point where we can't even trust the video feed that is coming from the [00:39:00] feed into that review booth?

[00:39:02] Mark Corbett: Oh yeah. 

[00:39:03] Mat Germain: That, that's another risk factor right there that nobody talks about, but it's real. So if I put a lot of money on a game and I can control that aspect in terms of the video and alter things, I can become a billionaire. Mark. I'm pulling all the strings. I'm a, you know, and I'm just a 14-year-old kid sitting on the edge of my bed.

[00:39:28] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. That it is some scary stuff. Watch out for movie of the Week folks. That's gonna be it next time. Oh, goodness gracious. Well, uh, we'll step back from the pit for a little bit here. 

[00:39:44] Mat Germain: Yeah, I agree. The Blue Jays are losing two nothing right now in the top of the third. So, uh, just so you know that what's going on as we're talking, uh, Randy Arozarena kicked it off with a walk and, uh, Julio Rodriguez, once again is the catalyst for the Mariners hit a [00:40:00] two run, uh, bomb.

[00:40:00] So, yeah, they're, they're rolling. 

[00:40:04] Mark Corbett: All right. Well, I gotta tell you, Mat, I. At the beginning of the year, if it wasn't gonna be us, I would've pulled for the Orioles or the Blue Jays. Mm-hmm. And I even till recently when I saw that Seattle is there and they've never been to the World Series, I have got to pull for Seattle.

[00:40:21] I think you already were. I'm, I'm slowly catching up with you on that. 

[00:40:26] Mat Germain: Yeah. I was hoping for a Brewers's, uh, Mariners, uh, from the beginning. 

[00:40:31] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[00:40:31] Mat Germain: So I know the Mariners have a lot of, oh, and Andreas Jimenez just hit a homer. So it's two, one now or two? Two, sorry. It was a two run shot. So there you go. It's a tight game.

[00:40:42] Um, so yeah, the Brewers and, and Mariners to me would just be an awesome World Series number one. 'cause you have the Bob Uecker background story on the Brewers side of things. They would be knocking off the bohemoth of the Dodgers, which is they need to be hit in the mouth by somebody at some point. And, and [00:41:00] then you also have two teams that have never won it all.

[00:41:03] Right? Yeah. So at that point, you're just really happy for whoever wins it and even for whoever loses it that they got to the World Series. So it would be a really good, feel good, uh, world Series. Um, I'll take the Blue Jays in there as well. They've only won two. It's not like they have a handful, so, uh, yeah, we'll see how it goes.

[00:41:23] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 'cause you know, I was thinking Al East and if we look back at our own history, we're not there. We're, we are, uh, looking at the eX-rays out there to see. I know we got Jake Bauers with, uh, Milwaukee. Mm-hmm. And who else? Uh oh. Randy Randy's with Seattle, uh, Luke Raley's with Seattle. Yep. And then if you go to the Dodgers, you got two powerhouses there on the mound that think of immediately.

[00:41:48] Yeah. And both of those guys. Tyler Glasnow and then seeing, my gosh, Blake Snell, game one kicking it. Okay. I, I would almost become a Dodger fan just 'cause Blake was on the [00:42:00] Mount, you know what I mean? It was that game. I would've had to just, ugh. It was amazing. I mean, I watched it, you know, like the next day.

[00:42:07] It was just amazing to see what he was able to achieve. And it's interesting too, 'cause Dave Roberts let him, let him run for eight innings, right? How the heck did that happen? And then the next night, Dave Roberts or the fi next game, Dave Roberts has, uh, Yamamoto on the mound and he pitches an entire game.

[00:42:27] 111 pitches 112. I'm not sure which, but my gosh, what the heck is going on in this game of baseball? Geez, man. Neatly. 

[00:42:38] Mat Germain: And it's, it's fair to say that the Brewers's game plan definitely needed to be better. Uh, but they're usually a contact, long at bat kind of lineup. That's how they wear people down normally.

[00:42:49] So it's, it was out of sorts and their managers sort of pointed to, uh, the Cubs series, wearing them down and, and really, you know, having their, their emotions way too high and [00:43:00] being over aggressive. I think the same thing happened with the Blue Jays, where they got through the team that they hated most in, in the league and the Yankees.

[00:43:07] And now it was a little bit of a letdown when they got to the Mariners. So sometimes it takes a little bit to get back into the series, but that's why I love the seven game series 'cause it gives you time to get back into it, to fight your way back, and then really. You know, the, the best team should come out of it.

[00:43:23] There's a couple of other eX-rays I wanna mention. Miles Mastrobuono is also with, uh, with the Mariners, and he's on the, the, the roster right now. And, uh, Milwaukee added Tobias Myers to their, , roster as well. So,, two more eX-rays to, to keep an eye on. And of course, Mat Arnold is the GM of the, , of the Brewers.

[00:43:42] So that's another eX-rays link. Wow. And Andrew Friedman is the president of the Dodgers. So there's a lot of ray's,, influence in this, uh, in this playoffs still. , And another one that everybody misses is Nathan Lukes or Lucas. Right. He was with, uh, [00:44:00] the Rays in their system forever. And he was one of those guys a little bit like Bob Seymour, where he was a late bloomer.

[00:44:06] Mm-hmm. But he never got a look with the Rays. And, and now maybe they regret not having a, a longer look because of the professional at bats he provides. And, um. You know, he's hitting in a two hole for, you know, a decent lineup. Yeah. He's an example of, , it's worthwhile to give everybody a look so that you know what it is you're passing on.

[00:44:27] Yeah. Once they leave, if you can help it. 

[00:44:32] Mark Corbett: Okay. This, this is a, I gotta tell you this pre-game, I'm turning the TV on and I got the sound down the other day and it was the Brewers. I says, is that Bill Belichick? I'm looking out there, I'm sorry, pat Murphy. But when you're out there with a hoodie and you got the sleeves cut off and you know, you're of a certain age, I didn't see a 19-year-old girl on his shoulder or anything like that.

[00:44:55] But you know, I thought, is that Bill Belichick? And [00:45:00] Yeah, I have no room to talk. I tell you, 

[00:45:05] Mat Germain: you almost owns that look, eh, and it's, yeah, a little bit time. 

[00:45:09] Mark Corbett: That is funny. Hey, I tell you what is funny is that the Savannah Bananas have wrapped up their season and they are planning for 2026. And let's see, what's the numbers here?

[00:45:24] Uh, it's gonna be, if you want a ticket. Don't look, wait for the scalpers. You can put, go to Savannah Banana's website and they have a lottery. The cutoff is October 31st, so you better get moving. And they are on a 45 state tour. They, you know, they're adding teams. They've got, you know, they used to just have the party animals and they, uh, added the firefighters as their opposition.

[00:45:50] So I don't know how many of these, if there's gonna be a couple of bananas teams as well against these guys. But there's, um, 75 stadiums and they anticipate. [00:46:00] 3.2 million is that all of MLB last year? Uh, 3.2 million. And, uh, as far as people are gonna come and see those games, and some of 'em, there's gonna be, let's see, um, 14 are gonna be at MLB stadiums, 10 are gonna be at football stadiums, and two of which have a capacity of more than 100,000.

[00:46:25] Mat Germain: Wow. Wow. So when did they start, when did the Savannah Bananas have their first year in, in, you know, in action? 

[00:46:34] Mark Corbett: Geez, I guess it's, I don't think it's been 10 years yet. You know, uh, let's see. Let's do a quick check here. 'cause I am not sure. 

[00:46:41] Mat Germain: 2015. So it's been, there you go. Oh, right. 10 years. Exactly right.

[00:46:45] Yeah. How much do you think they're worth? Oh, geez. More. 

[00:46:50] Mark Corbett: Uh, more, you know, you couldn't pay Jesse Cole enough. I, I cannot, I cannot even begin. But I'd like a lot of things. We figure some bubble will pop at some point, [00:47:00] but he's doing everything he can to make this happen and not making a flash in the pan. I mean, he's, he's expanded so many different places.

[00:47:06] He's come to, uh, heck they know tearing up, uh, football fields to make a baseball field for 'em. You know, he's turning 

[00:47:13] Mat Germain: them into the baseball version of the Harlem Globe Trotters. And the Harlem Globe Trotters are still going around. I, I almost went to see them again. They, they came to Nova Scotia. Uh, you know, they're still active.

[00:47:25] They're still going around, so they're valued at $15 million now. I don't know what, what the majority of AA teams and the minors are worth, but I'm telling you right now, very few of them would get $15 million as a valuation. 

[00:47:40] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[00:47:41] Mat Germain: So, so it's one of those things where he's taken nothing basically and, and grown it to be.

[00:47:48] You know, a cash cow. Uh, and, and I'm pretty sure that his own income exceeds the 15 million. So I think if, if he was to actually put it up for auction, let's say, [00:48:00] uh, you know, and retain a role and, and doing exactly what he's doing, he could probably get closer to 40 to 50 million for it, more than likely if somebody really wanted to purchase it and, and hammer it out the way that they think they could.

[00:48:15] But I love the fact that he's, he's drawing attention to just going out there and having fun. And we were talking to, to, to Jane last week and that I was thinking, you know, Brett Phillips needs to come back to the Rays and he needs to be that baseball is fun again. And, and, you know, if, if Brett Wa retired and wants to have a little fun.

[00:48:38] He needs to be part of that action with a Ben Savannah Bananas, because he just fits that mold better than anybody I know and is a great dancer. So all those routines they put on, you know, he could probably add his own spin on a couple of things and, and, you know, heighten their performances up a 

[00:48:56] Mark Corbett: little bit.

[00:48:56] I'd love to see that. You're right. He would be a, a perfect [00:49:00] fit in everything about him. I mean, he, he's just so energetic and the, the positivity he brings out there, Jesse Cole going back this overall to the bananas. Jesse Cole, the guy who created all this stuff, the man in the yellow tuxedo with the yellow bowler, he is the banana's energy too.

[00:49:18] Because if he and his wife hadn't put all of this together, if they hadn't continued to build this presence and awareness and still own the product, remember that they still own the product. Man, that's, uh, that says a lot, Mat. So he's, I, I'd go get him back to you. I'd love to see Brett Phillips there.

[00:49:40] Oh gosh. Well, you know, having Jane here last week was an absolute blast. Uh, that, that, that lady, she's, she's something else. And the depth of her understanding of the game and. There, there's a lot to be said about trying to make this game more fun and, and Brett's certainly doing that. I'm, I'm doing some [00:50:00] homework 'cause of some of the things we talked about last week and trying to find ways we can do that even just maybe here in, in Tampa.

[00:50:07] You know, there's, I feel like the new ownership is definitely has that mentality and certainly Ken Babby with his experience, uh, with the jumbo shrimp and the, uh, the Akron rubber ducks. So. Let's keep baseball fun. Let's, let's not get caught up in all this gambling stuff. I, I would strongly persuade anybody there who's even thinking about that part of the game, step away from it.

[00:50:31] And it's another reason, Mat, why I always talk about going to see the minor league games in the, in the community games. 'cause if there's anybody done there, it is, like you're saying, somebody putting down a few bucks, you know, with a neighbor down there, they're not going through some organized gambling organization.

[00:50:46] So yeah, 

[00:50:47] Mat Germain: the 50 50 draw is all, you should be gambling on those games, right? 

[00:50:52] Mark Corbett: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do the 50 50 draw. I'm with you brother. 

[00:50:56] Mat Germain: Yeah. 

[00:50:56] Mark Corbett: Oh, any other things we need to uncover? You would like to talk about? [00:51:00] 

[00:51:00] Mat Germain: Um, I think the, uh, the big one, i, I, I rewatched the Erik Neander news conference at the end of the year and, 'cause sometimes you watch it the first time, you're just, you have all these feelings from the season, yada, yada, yada, and, and all this baggage and you don't really want to believe what's being said and, and you don't really pick up all the little things that are said during the, the conference.

[00:51:23] And I just wanna say that I think. I think the Rays this year more than ever are cognizant of what it is they need to fix. 

[00:51:31] Mark Corbett: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:32] Mat Germain: Like the little slight about saying, we need more production from the outfield, we need more of this, we need more of that, yada yada, all the little things that were noted in that, you know, almost off the cuff on the side so fast that you barely catch it during the con News conference.

[00:51:48] I, I think that the rays are sort of subliminally telling other teams, like, this is what we're looking for. Like, we're, we're, you know, we're going to be on the hunt. I, and again, within the [00:52:00] budget that they have, they're not gonna blow anything out of the water. They're not gonna chase the, the huge free agents.

[00:52:05] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[00:52:05] Mat Germain: Um, but I think, uh, you know, the way things are leading to a positive realm and, and believe it or not, what Stu did in terms of handing everybody a lot of money, uh, in terms of bonuses on his way out, is going to relax the atmosphere a lot. In Tampa, all those people that are usually on edge don't know if they're gonna have their jobs or not, don't know when the next paycheck is coming.

[00:52:29] If they do lose their jobs, yada yada, are all gonna be a little bit more relaxed and they're gonna be able to focus a little bit more and they're going to realize that, holy crap, our work is actually appreciated sometimes and sometimes there's a payout because of it. Right. So the vibes are good. You're gonna get back into the Trop.

[00:52:45] I'm curious to see what they do with Evan Longoria and whether or not they, you know, what kind of offers they make to him in terms of a role with the team. Do they retire the number, do they, um. Do they actually, [00:53:00] um, you know, give him a bench role and say, okay, you're now the bench boss. , Do they instead decide to have him part of the coaching staff in AAA first?

[00:53:09] Uh, and is he willing to do that? , There's a lot of coaching , and kind of things that I'm hoping they'll change all the way through the organization, and especially when it comes to the hitting, hitting side of things. But then I see in the news that Taylor Walls is a nominee for the Gold Glove award, and, and I'm sitting there, not only was did, was did he.

[00:53:32] You know, miss a lot of time this season, but I watched Mark and the inconsistencies of his play this year more than ever. You know, I'm shaking my head and I'm going, okay, well how bad is it at shortstop in the AmErikan League right now for him to actually get that, you know, nod. Yeah. Like, it has to be pretty fierce, uh, because I get it.

[00:53:56] The skills are there. Don't get me wrong. He's, if he, if he's playing his A game and he's [00:54:00] having his best season, he's probably an elite, you know, defensive shortstop and can actually, you know, earn an, a gold glove. But I didn't think it was this year. So my fears are the Rays will sit on that and go, okay, we will give him the money that he's supposed to get paid next year.

[00:54:16] I think it's 2.4 million or something like that. Right. And they'll keep, keep him around, they'll give him playing time and they'll, you know, hope that he rubs shoulders with Carson Williams and keep him, , loose and whatever. . So I'm, I'm fearful that a lot of the mistakes that have been made over the last two years will keep happening.

[00:54:33] Mm-hmm. Because of their, their traditional defense, first bat, second, you know, plug away, try to eat away, runs, yada, yada, yada. So, so I guess that's what my point is, is I'm looking for new blood to be brought into the organization, and I don't know who that's going to be, but something needs to get shaken.

[00:54:53] Yeah. 

[00:54:54] Mark Corbett: Yeah. There's, there's no doubt. Pardon me? Yeah. And this is the time to do it. [00:55:00] And looking at what you're saying about Taylor not having the greatest year, I'd really like to think that the front office looks beyond Rowling's Golden Glove nomination as far as an assessment of what your chart slip should be, should be achieving out there.

[00:55:14] If, if that's the measurement that they're using, we're in trouble. Because if you start looking at what's like everything else, you, you have to be able to, you have to be able to assess with your own eyes. And certainly that's the demand that the fans expect of the front office and the scouts and everybody else who they're fielding.

[00:55:32] So I know a lot of people have some love for Taylor Walls. I think, you know, he is a wonderful guy and I've enjoyed seeing him with the team. But you and I this last season have been over looking for trades. We've been looking for a lot of things with him and. You know, quite honestly I think that, Wander Franco is ghost is still lingering because of that.

[00:55:53] Uh, it is like he's not there, you know? Yeah, I know he's not there. It's Halloween boys, girls, but, [00:56:00] uh, so who was gonna come in and be Wander Franco? Nobody. So the expectation for walls shouldn't be that level, and I don't think it is, but it should be higher than what we have right now. 

[00:56:17] Mat Germain: Right. Like I'm talking if he's 10% worse than league average, so that would mean about a 90% or 90 WRC plus.

[00:56:26] So a way that runs created, right? That's about being 10% under, but he was 40% under mark. He was a 60 w uh, WRC plus. So I mean it, again, it's like having a pitcher in the lineup and it's certainly not worthwhile. So I pleaded for them to use him only on one side of the plate. They never did. Uh, they keep letting him switch hit.

[00:56:48] I'm like, if it's not working as a switch hitter, that should be a rule across the league. If, if the player is not better by switch hitting, he no longer switch hits. End of story. Right? I, I'm [00:57:00] sorry. Right. But if you're 40% below league average while you're switch hitting any normal coach, right through the minors would say, Hey buddy, pull 'em aside.

[00:57:09] You may want to pick a side and see how it goes. Right. Uh, that's just my, I'm not a baseball guru by any means in terms of like how the, the, the mental aspect of things works out. And I realize there's a period of time where, yeah, you have to grow into it. And there's very few chipper Jones out there that can do it, you know, at a high level from the be, get-go.

[00:57:31] But I, I think the Rays need to Rays the bar when it comes to hitting performances on their team and hold people accountable. And that comes with competition and that includes Josh Lowe who needs to, you know, he needs to be revisited in terms of whether or not he has a role in his team as well. Um. Uh, you know, Chris Morrell, a whole bunch of other ones in the outfield.

[00:57:58] So that's why I say the Erik [00:58:00] Neander comment about the outfielder needing to be more productive in each case, , despite, highlighting Chandler Simpson's value to the team and what he did out there, which was outstanding. Mm-hmm. So there's positives in there. It's not all negatives by any means, but it, they, what it did, mark, and, and this is what Erik pointed to in , that conference was all those marginal games where they could have come out on top, where they could have gotten the lead back, where they could have made good on, on opportunities. They didn't, because people didn't step up in those moments, like all, you know, and, and key areas. , Even though the rays had a really good, strong run differential, and you could see the potential was there, , and a lot of key pieces were in place, they never could push ahead consistently to actually, , win a lot of the games that they used to win, , in the early 2020s because they, they just didn't have the balance through the lineup to actually [00:59:00] get it done consistently.

[00:59:04] Mark Corbett: Well, I, I like that you're reading the tea leaves after watching Erik speak again and, and seeing what he's putting out there, , and putting out little hints of what the rays are looking for I, and, and being able to assess it. , That's very cool. , Mat, so I'm, I don't know, man. We'll, we'll see, we'll see.

[00:59:24] Mat Germain: So the Jays took a five, two lead over the Mariners and, uh, and it looks like they, they, they might be able to pull out a win there, uh, get things a little bit more balanced, so see how it goes. Good. Good. Yeah. Third, though. 

[00:59:40] Mark Corbett: It's gonna be an interesting World Series and the teams that are gonna get there.

[00:59:44] And I thought it was so funny last week when we had Jane on here and she's a Yankees fan, and during, during our conversation there was a few groans and moans and, uh, she gave us a few of the, the plays, which you could tell she was suffering and we left her [01:00:00] before the game was over. But 

[01:00:02] Mat Germain: it was just on that note, I, I do have to ask you, what are your thoughts on Sandy Koufax?

[01:00:08] First of all, retiring early and second of all saying he doesn't watch the game. 

[01:00:12] Mark Corbett: That struck me hard because this is a man who's an icon of the game. And, and I almost wondered, did you really wanna tell us that Jane did, did, did you really wanna tell us that that's, he looked. 

[01:00:29] Mat Germain: Of the game is my first question.

[01:00:31] Like you or, or did he only like it exactly in that way that he played it and that's it. He won't tolerate anything else. And then that, that intolerance for any change is sad to me because it, it, it takes you away from the sport and the opportunity to enjoy all the moments that, so imagine right now, you know, like, um, uh, what's his name?

[01:00:52] Dusty Baker, right? 

[01:00:53] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[01:00:54] Mat Germain: Stepped away from the game for a long period of time. He came back, he won a, you know, world Series with the national, [01:01:00] imagine if he had treated baseball the same way and never watched it again. He said, ah, this is all manure and I'm not taking part in it. You know, all those moments in relationships that he would've missed along the way and, and, and the highlights of his life that he's had to do all the way through.

[01:01:16] It saddens me for him. 

[01:01:18] Mark Corbett: Yeah. That, 

[01:01:18] Mat Germain: that Sandy Koufax can't come out of his bubble and, and be open. To new things that, that really, really made me sad for him. 

[01:01:32] Mark Corbett: Yeah, I get what you're saying, but I also respect the idea that there are purists out there in anything. Oh, I agree. You go ahead. Cringe folks. You may not say he's, Mat is cringing right now, and Yeah, there, there are purists out there in, in certain things, and I, I, they don't allow an evolution.

[01:01:54] You know, there's, there's, even if you have musical styles, if you have a musical artist, you know, [01:02:00] uh, suddenly do they play that one type of music? Are there only a certain number of chords that they're gonna use throughout the rest? They limit them themselves. They become a specialist and you do great at it, but they don't get to enjoy all of the music that way.

[01:02:14] And I think that's what you're probably seeing with Sandy. But he's, he, he likes those few chords that he's playing. He's, he's like that. And he, I don't think he, he sees. The potential for joy beyond that, 

[01:02:27] Mat Germain: do you remember the running back for the Detroit, uh, lions, that, that stepped away from the game really early?

[01:02:33] Mm-hmm. He was like a mm-hmm. I can't remember his name, uh, for the life of me, but, but he was just a Dom Barry Sanders, right? Yeah. Yep. He retired extremely young, walked away from the game, never was seen or heard from again, like all of those years afterwards because of whatever he reasons that he had, you know, the same kind of deal where you just, I don't know.

[01:02:56] You think about all the hours and all the time that he spent with [01:03:00] his family, with his dad, you know, his kids, that I imagine he has a family and that, you know, they're growing up and that now is he not allowing, or he is not sharing any baseball memories with them, so they're not watching baseball together.

[01:03:12] He is not sharing his wisdom, you know, he's not taking 'em to the park, honest, obviously. So. A huge part of his life is just here, watch the tapes of me playing baseball. This is the way it's supposed to be played. And that's it, that's all you get to enjoy with me after that, if you want to go off and watch it on your own, that's great.

[01:03:31] No, the there's something selfish about that and, and very close minded that I don't like, 

[01:03:38] Mark Corbett: not, I thought, I thought you were sad for him. Now you sound like 

[01:03:40] Mat Germain: Yeah. Well, it, it, it really comes off that way. Yeah. And, and it's not, um, I don't, I'm not saying you have to agree with it. That is a completely different thing.

[01:03:51] I, I get the animosity through a lot of the changes. Yeah. I get, the way that hitting is taught is atrocious. I get that. You know, they're, [01:04:00] they're valuing, hitting homers way more than they need to, yada, yada, yada. We, I think most of us are on that boat anyway, but it doesn't mean that we're going to avoid the game.

[01:04:09] Yeah. Like, that's what struck me. I just, I don't understand it. I don't, I, I get Okay. Not, um. Saying, you're not gonna go watch 162 games of a team. Maybe you, you know, you'll take your kids to one game, you'll take your kids to two games, whatever it is. Right. But to say that's it. I don't watch the game at all that I'm done.

[01:04:32] I don't know. 

[01:04:33] Mark Corbett: Well, let, let, let's hope that none issue. 

[01:04:36] Mat Germain: Secret. Secret. 

[01:04:37] Mark Corbett: I hope 

[01:04:37] Mat Germain: that he watches in secret. 

[01:04:38] Mark Corbett: Yeah, I do too. I was kind of hoping maybe that was almost like a flip remark. They said, I don't watch damn thing anymore. Yeah. Was the soap opera on yet? Yeah. Okay.

[01:04:51] Oh gosh. Well, we love the game and otherwise we wouldn't be here sharing it with you boys and girls, Mat. As, as [01:05:00] always, it's a joy my friend. And uh, folks, I hope your team wins the World Series 'cause mine's not. We've got our favorites and we always love to hear from you about yours. Uh, share your, your love of the game with us.

[01:05:14] You can find Mat and I both on Blue Sky. Uh, just one last thing. You know, I went back to, uh, to look at X and I thought about spending a little more time there and I put my foot in the water and I said, no, no. So you'll, you'll find me on Facebook and Blue Sky as well as Mat. We'll put that at the end of the notes, the show.

[01:05:33] So wanna thank y'all again for joints here today. And Mr. Mat, do you wanna just roll this out? Any other last remarks? 

[01:05:40] Mat Germain: No, enjoy the, the playoffs. You know, watch the games, watch the highlights however you can, and, and enjoy whoever ends up winning it. You know, even though it might be the Dodgers, just enjoy it a little bit.

[01:05:52] Alright. 

[01:05:53] Mark Corbett: Okay, well once again, thank you all for joining us here today in Baseball Biz On Deck, and we will be back here next week. Take care and [01:06:00] enjoy the World Series. Bye. Oh.